genres in fanfic

[tielan]

I understand the principle of the thing:

het: male/female relationship
slash: male/male relationship (sometimes term includes female/female relationship)
femmeslash: female/female relationship
gen: no relationship

However, actually defining a given story in terms of the relationships within it seems...limiting. Especially when the story isn't focused on a specific relational outcome.

I once read a story that was labelled with about six or seven different pairings - and yet there wasn't really anything in there that I'd even class as UST. It was just interactions. Maybe it's just a function of fandom - where the most popular pairings are those characters that interact the most (anyone familiar with the Harry Potter fandom and the Harry/Hermione vs Harry/Ginny phenomenon?), but have we really fallen so far that we're reduced to what I see as a mentality of "They looked at/spoke to each other! It must be love!"?

Then there's some confusion about what 'gen' actually means. Back in the mists of time, 'gen' meant non-slash, and everything het below an R-rating. These days - at least in Stargate fandom, it seems as though 'gen' is defined as "something we would see in the show" - which is always difficult since different people see different things in the show.

Just how much inclusion of a relationship (even friendship) is 'het'? For example, if I wrote a story about John and Teyla trying to get out of a tough situation in which they talked about the circumstances and joked with each other (John being typically dorky, and Teyla going for dry understatement a little like sarcasm), comfortable and easy with each other, does that qualify as 'het' just because it's John and Teyla occasionally teasing each other? Would it be any different if I wrote John and Rodney in the same situation, tailored to their respective personalities and interactive styles?

Is 'Sensitivity' gen or het? I labelled it as 'gen' in the awards because that's how I see it: it's not about a romantic or sexual relationship although it uses various degrees of UST and gender orientation and sexuality are a part of the story.

Is 'Travelling Sense Of Home' gen or het? That's another one I'd label as gen, although the interaction largely runs along John/Teyla and Rodney/Ronon lines.

'Genes In A Twist' is gen, 'And In That Dreaming Weep' is het. But what about all the degrees in between?

And what about stories that don't focus on the relationship at all - where the relationship is barely a by-line?

saeva once wrote a story - 'Not The Girl You Think You Are' - which mentioned John and Teyla sleeping together (sexually). It was one-line in a 1000-word story that was otherwise about the whole team's escape and dealing with the situation created by the escape. For reasons that I never fully comprehended, the story was relegated to an 'undefined' genre rather than 'gen', or even 'het'

I've had stories I thought were 'gen' end up in the 'het' category on the newsletter and I've had someone object to my stories on the grounds that they're not really 'shippy' because John and Teyla never actually get together.

I guess my problem is that in my 'gen' fics, I write what I consider to be 'life'. It's not about the romance, it's about living; and love and friendship, trust and affection, comradeship and caring are indistinguishable from the 'business' of life. So, yes, there will be 'relationship' mixed in with the action - because relating to people is what other people do.

How do you perceive the genre labels and their accuracy in defining stories and character relationships?

Comments

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

It's kind of bugging me a little now...thinking about the story I am currently writing. Because I have written 'ship stories. That definitely focused on two people and their feelings for one another. And "Blood Night", Daniel/Janet, definitely a 'ship fic that happens to involve the rest of the team a lot whereas "Harceisis" is a team fic that happens to 'ship Sam/Jack because I 'ship Sam/Jack, so I can't write them as not-together. If that makes sense. You're right...it's all about degrees.

My other problem is that I typically use a 'ship as a dramatic short cut. In "Blood Night", I needed someone to have a strong emotional investment, so I hooked up Daniel and Janet. The original plan was Sam and Jack, but it wasn't working, so I picked two fairly arbitrary characters and threw them together. It turned out I really liked them together, but the whole development was gradual. My current story requires Heightmeyer to have a close connection to one of my other characters, so I used the fallback Heightmeyer/Zelenka 'ship because they were in "Duet" together and I kind of adore them both. But the story is not 'shippy and should not be qualified as "het", even though they have one (important to the plot) scene that happens to take place in bed.

Mostly, I am a minimalist when it comes to labeling fics. I wouldn't say that "Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left To Lose" is a slash fic, even though it's about Rodney and John and it's one of the most beautiful romance stories I have ever read. I think everyone does it differently....and people will always complain or disagree when there are so many other productive things they could be doing!

[r-becca.livejournal.com]

I am very familiar with the HP fandom and the het ship issues therin. What do you want to know?

I usually label my fics with either the pairing OR 'gen.' I don't tend to label fics as 'het' or 'slash,' because anyone familiar with the fandom ought to be able to tell from the pairing, and sometimes there are fics like love triangles or threesomes that involve both, and it's just too confusing.

The way I see it, 'gen' fic is not focused on the relationship -- doesn't mean there's no relationship in the story, just that that's not the focus. So I have at times classified stories as 'gen with X/Y' or similar, usually to get across the idea that there IS a relationship there, but it's not the POINT.

Of course, that's speaking for me, labeling my own fics for my own readers -- not a newsletter. The way the sga_newsletter folks do it (I believe) is that they just use the classification in the header. So if the fic header just says "Not the Girl You Think You Are, John" they would list that as 'unspecified' because the ship category was unspecified *in the header*.

[tielan]

Well, the reference to HP fandom seemed to be more in the context of certain groups' comments of: "Hermione spends the most time with Harry, therefore they should be the canon pairing!"

ie. "One glance and they're in love" syndrome.

And I'm not sure that the newsletter uses the header. I've labelled stories as 'gen' only to discover them in the 'het' section of the newsletter (possibly because I listed them as going towards the fanfic100 challenge for John/Teyla although the relationship was just them as friends - which is another reason to question whether John-and-Teyla would be considered 'het' while John-and-Rodney would be considered 'gen').

[tielan]

I'm tending towards minimalism myself these days.

Mostly because I'm beginning to think that the people who are going to read my stories will read it no matter what pairing I label it with; while the people who are only going to read stories that feature their OTPs aren't going to stir for anything less than screaming orgasms ringing from the rafters of the city, so why bother with them?

It's a little ironic, actually. It's the John/Teyla readers who seem to have the most open minds when it comes to responding to my fics across the board. Obviously, this doesn't pan out in broader fandom, but it's an interesting microcosmic study.

[r-becca.livejournal.com]

I think with HP, it's not time spent (because that would lead shippers toward Harry/Ron, or Harry/Ron/Hermione, which OK are very popular as well...) which leads fans toward Harry/Hermione but more the attitude that 'the hero should get the girl at the end.' Hermione is designated 'the girl' because she is the female character of Harry's own age who is the most major character.

At least, this is my interpretation. I am a Harry/Ginny fan myself, so I don't actually know firsthand what drives people to like Harry/Hermione. Obviously some of them just like the dynamic between the two characters.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

Mostly because I'm beginning to think that the people who are going to read my stories will read it no matter what pairing I label it with.

Exactly. I am pretty much your textbook case, I think....I don't support the 'ship (necessarily), but the fact that you wrote it is more important than who flirts with whom.

[tielan]

Yes, but you are very much the exception to the rule, m'dear. :)

And I appreciate it so much! *hugs*

here via a metafandom link suggestion

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

I find your question incerdibly interesting, because I think there's a difference between whether the pairing is meant as a warning (i.e., if you really don't like X/Y, there'll be mention of it, be warned) or as an advertisement (read because you like X/Y). If people look for the latter, they may get annoyed if there's not enough romance; if they look for the former, they may be upset, because it *is* in there.

Plus, I think fanfiction in general is so heavily romance oriented, that we do look for pairings, whereas in most fiction (other than Romance) that wouldn't be the case...

Just one more comment in response to newsletter categorizations. After some angry debates where we'd read the story and labelled according to the central pairing when the author wanted to clearly withhold the pairing, we started the category Uncategorized. At the moment, everything that isn't clearly labelled or clearly recognizable (as in sex in the first line) or externally obvious (as in posted in a pairing community) will usually get put into the Uncategorized category. Part of it is the fact that we do not read every story; part of it is that some people purposefully do not want readers prejudiced by a pairing or a gen label. In saeva's case, she did not have a pairing or a gen label, so it seemed most sensible, I suppose, for the person who memoried it to put it in the uncategorized category.

[mamoru22.livejournal.com]

Well, taking into consideration that sometimes we actually mistype or mislabel ourselves by accident we actually rely solely on the information given by the author in the header (mostly because none of us actually read all the stories we link to).

while I personally sometimes disagree with the classifications some authors use we will not change it out of respect to the authors whishes and yeah, also because we don't normally read the stories to double check the information.

But I do admit, that if I would see a header saying "Gen, Sheppard/Teyla" I might end up assuming that Gen was the rating and Sheppard/Teyla the pairing since I tend to always assume that any two names written with a slash indicate pairing be it het or slash.

And while skimming a header I can imagine we just ended up only seeing the pairing title of the challenge and made a wrong assumption.

Sadly, I think the biggest problem is that the labels used in fandom overall are sometimes just different enough to give people the wrong idea about what is actually implied but close enough to make one feel as if this idea is the only logical one.

Re: here via a metafandom link suggestion

[tielan]

You know, it never occurred to me to look at it as a 'warning' vs 'advertisement' dichotomy - although now that you mention it, that's a good description.

Thank for the clarification on the newsletter.

Your comment about a story being 'posted in a pairing community' and then being listed as pairing-specific is interesting.

I post John-and-Teyla friendship in the john_teyla community - it's not always about the romantic relationship [het], just about their interaction with each other, usually as friends [gen, John, Teyla]. In that case, I suppose I'm using the interaction as an advertisement, which the newsletter than turns into a warning - a case of crossed intentions.

Maybe I'm just weird regarding relationships - particularly male/female ones, for which it seems less quarter is given for 'mere friendship'. My work is usually in a no man's land between "I'm in love with him/her" and "I have absolutely no warm feelings towards him/her" - the crux of complaints about stories being too shippy and not shippy enough.

Thank you for responding to the question though!

[tielan]

Thanks for answering and clarifying about the newsletter.

In future, I'll probably label what I consider friendship pieces as [gen, character, character] unless there's a distinct romantic element, in which case, I'll use the [character/character] definition.

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to find out if I'm still on the list of LJs being checked for new work? I think I was for a while, but I seem to have dropped off the radar - the only work that seems to automatically be picked up is stuff that's posted to communities.

I'm mostly asking so I can know whether I should just mail the broader details of my fanfic/meta posts to the newsletter every time.

[mamoru22.livejournal.com]

Well, there really isn't any list of private journals we monitor for the newsletter. Any of us might include interesting posts we see on our friendslists but the large majority of links we find only through the SGA communities we are monitoring.

But of course, if you make a post you'd like to see linked which has not been posted to any SGA community, just go ahead and give us the heads up by mail or as a comment and we'll include it.

We're always grateful for additional links. :)

[tielan]

Ah, well, it's possible I dropped off someone's f-list in the last couple of months, which might explain why the posts I don't link elsewhere don't turn up on the newsletter.

Mostly I didn't want to end up inundating you with mails. :)

[luisa-f.livejournal.com]

I can only give you my opinion as a reader, I'm a S/W shipper, but I read all pairings, and slash, all that matters to me is quality.
I prefer it when fics are marked as UST, frienship, or RST because if I know it's friendship I'm not going to get my hopes up since I'm a sucker for romantic scenes, so if I know beforehand that it's a friendship piece I won't be expecting any hook ups. That doesn't mean that I dismiss a fic if it's not specified if there will be some romance, only that I prefer to be prepared for not 'getting any'.
I guess my attitude with relationships in fics is pretty much the same one that with the show, I see all SGA characters as being extremely close, and they care about each other, so I don't automatically dump each and any personal moment between character on the ship department.
I'll agree with another poster, to some it's a warning, for others it might be advertising, I know many fellow shipmates of mine who cannot stand a number of ships and might want to avoid them. If I'm looking for some sort of interaction between Weir and Ronon (even if it's not smut - my favorite ;D), it really helps to find a fic that says Ronon/Weir - Something.

[blade-girl.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm one of those who considers "gen" to mean non-romantic, and you are making me rethink that definition with this post. But a big part of the reason that I define it in that way is that I don't feel that this particular franchise truly offers that much in the way of UST, so pairings often take me out of the story right away. But you're right - the pairing, if there is one, isn't necessarily the point of the fic; sometimes, it's not about the relationship as a romance, but about life in general, or caring, or principles, or trust vs. betrayal. Unless you are writing porn or specifically about the romance, the pairing probably shouldn't be that important to the reader.

And yet, it clearly is. I frequently see people saying that they only read a particular pairing, or only non-McShep. I prefer fic that doesn't involve romantic pairings of any kind, but I read lots of non-gen stuff. Maybe I do that because there's so little non-pairing material available, but I do keep myself somewhat open. Maybe the SGA fandom would be less fragmented if more people would approach fanfic that way?

[teaphile.livejournal.com]

To me, gen = no hint of romantic relationships other than what we've seen on the show. So for SGA, John being attracted to Teyla and suppressing it? Gen. On the other hand, if the entire story is about his lust for her, I'd consider it het. I'll accept Sam/Jack UST in a gen SG-1 story, but if it's resolved it goes in the het pile.

For the record, Willow/Tara was gen, to me. I was puzzled the first time I saw a slash warning for them.

Pre-slash is the designation that confuses me, unless it's the first story in a series that will later be slash. If one person is non-canonically attracted to another of the same sex, it's slash. If not, then it's friendship.

So, yeah. Confusing. I don't even want to think about what my definitions mean in Torchwood fandom.

[tielan]

I understand that not everyone is the "OMG! Exchanged looks = LOVE!" mentality, but it seems to...to pervade fandom nevertheless.

I've seen fans count the screentime the characters in their OTP had together and balance it up against the screentime the anti-OTP receives, then have screaming fits about favouritism. By contrast, "But our OTP has so many scenes together, while the anti-OTP hardly has any!" might be a more moderate version of this kind of thinking, but it's still the same mentality, albeit less parochial. And the popularity of pairing characters who interact with each other (whether or not the interaction is romantically intended or not) is common - in SGA fandom as well as others.

I guess I fall into the opposite category as you when it comes to fic - I prefer my stories on the non-shippy side of things. Team-mates and friends rather than instant lovers, just add sex! There's fun to be had in the hot sex side of things, but I'd rather read a longer story about my various pairings with plot, friendship dynamics and UST than one that's entirely about the romantic relationship.

Romantic relationships are one aspect in the broad spectrum of life - the broader friendship-based relationships are what interest me more: hence my fondness for team fics.

[tielan]

I'm curious as to how my post is making you rethink the definition.

And, yes. As noted above, I suspect that I use my pairing labels as advertisements, while most people use them as warnings.

Which suggests that I should just leave off any and all pairing labels...except that most of my f-list don't read 'gen' either. (Or they certainly don't comment on it.)

I don't read all that much around the fandom - I admit. What I do read is based on the reputation of the writer, the recommendations of others, and how I'm feeling at the time.

[tielan]

To me, gen = no hint of romantic relationships other than what we've seen on the show. So for SGA, John being attracted to Teyla and suppressing it? Gen.

This is a pretty common definition - but then the problem comes of what people see on the show (or what they're willing to admit to seeing on the show).

For many shippers, I find they seem to think it 'safer' to deny that one half of their OTP is in any way attracted to another character - which means dissing the character, denying that any interactions have a romantic component, and loudly proclaiming how little chemistry the interaction has while proclaiming how much chemistry their own OTP has.

I see John as attracted to Teyla, physically and emotionally, but with the brakes way on. I see him as good friends with both Rodney and Elizabeth, with an element of guy-guy and guy-girl teasing between him and them that you get between familiar and comfortable friends. Could there be more? Sure! I just don't see Shep/McKay or Shep/Weir as viscerally as I see John/Teyla.

Obviously the McSheps and Shweirs will disagree with this estimation - and probably a lot of others, too.

So who's 'right'? Is there even a 'right'? Or are there only interpretations? And if there are only interpretations, who gets to put their interpretation on the definition of 'gen'?

And then you have fandom shipper wars.

ps. Torchwood? Can be summed up in one sentence: "You people and your quaint definitions."

[beth-soprano.livejournal.com]

I tend to think gen is just a basic story without large amounts of established or in the process of being established relationships. For instance, it could be an action/adventure story and it briefly mentions that John+Teyla are together for the story. As long as it doesn't dwell on the romantic side of the story but instead focuses on the action/adventure part (example: focuses on escaping from the bad guys, or finding a ZPM, or exploding rocks, etc), it would be gen. If it was John+Teyla, action/adventure but almost entirely about the two of them being together, then it would be het.
I actually like when people label stories. I personally don't read slash, so I like it when there's a warning in the summary. Same thing for smut. Pairing labels are a bit weirder though. How much of the story does the relationship have to be in for it to need a label? I have a SGA drama/tragedy fic I'm writing on my ff page but I labeled the couples because they're in so much of the story and are essential to how it's told (a lot of the story is and will be about the characters and the couples, the one that is separated and the one that isn't). But if it's just a coy smile or a backhanded comment or a small mention to a relationship, it doesn't need a label (though if you don't like that particular pairing it could bug you).
I think I'm babbling again (sorry!).

[beth-soprano.livejournal.com]

I tend to think gen is just a basic story without large amounts of established or in the process of being established relationships. For instance, it could be an action/adventure story and it briefly mentions that John+Teyla are together for the story. As long as it doesn't dwell on the romantic side of the story but instead focuses on the action/adventure part (example: focuses on escaping from the bad guys, or finding a ZPM, or exploding rocks, etc), it would be gen. If it was John+Teyla, action/adventure but almost entirely about the two of them being together, then it would be het.
I actually like when people label stories. I personally don't read slash, so I like it when there's a warning in the summary. Same thing for smut. Pairing labels are a bit weirder though. How much of the story does the relationship have to be in for it to need a label? I have a SGA drama/tragedy fic I'm writing on my ff page but I labeled the couples because they're in so much of the story and are essential to how it's told (a lot of the story is and will be about the characters and the couples, the one that is separated and the one that isn't). But if it's just a coy smile or a backhanded comment or a small mention to a relationship, it doesn't need a label (though if you don't like that particular pairing it could bug you).
I think I'm babbling again (sorry!).