My Rights As A Straight White Woman In Fandom

[tielan]

Found via ladyjax: My Rights as a Straight White Woman in Fandom: A Manifesto.

Take with a grain of hyperbole, but contains a few grains of truth in some of the reactions I've seen - and occasions a few defensive reactions in myself that I'll have to think about and examine.

--

And a thought: I'm of Chinese descent, born and brought up in Australia (a white country). Most of my childhood friends were the same: Chinese-descent, born in Australia.

Are we white?

Is raciality or cultural identification to do with skin colour or culture or the way of thinking? And if so, how much?

Australian racial tensions aren't the same as US racial tensions, and the Chinese don't seem to have the same issues that people of other racial types do. (Although it would be nice to see more Asians in pop culture TV shows - Hiro, Ando, and George Takei notwithstanding.) As far as I know, most people pick on our appearance to begin with, but after a generation when the local Chinese have generally worked hard and gotten their kids educated in western systems, no-one seems to think twice about it. At least, I've never noticed it that much in Sydney.

Right now - at least in the Australian cities, and particularly in Sydney as the primary melting-pot of Australian multi-culture - the media focuses on people of Middle Eastern Appearance with the focus on Islam, muslims, and the concept of communities of Sharia law within realms of western governance.

Presently, I'm living in a small town outside of Sydney. The population is primarily white anglo or mediterranean Euro, with a greater incident of Aboriginal Australians around than you find in Sydney, and almost no Chinese or Indians. The daughter of the man in whose house I'm staying asked about my eyes being slanty because I was Chinese. She's five and it was a question put to her by one of her schoolmates upon discovering that she'd met a Chinese person. It wasn't intended as offensive - at least, not by Lil - so I didn't take it as such, but it made me think all the same.

I don't know what I think of myself as. I mean, there's a joke in Australian Chinese culture: we're bananas - yellow on the outside, white on the inside. And I know there are some seminal differences in the thought processes between Chinese from China, and Chinese from Western society - as well as some key similarities. It all sorta blends together though - in the end, I'm just "me". They could flay me and put a different skin colour on me (shades of Anne McCaffrey's Restoree) but I'd still be "me" - but how much of that "me" is due to my racial appearance and type?

I've noticed that I tend to notice people of Aboriginal descent more - that might be because the rest of the population is largely white or Euro around here, or it might be a racial prejudice in myself. I'm not sure; the only Aboriginal person I've met was the woman who used to live in this house - and she was only part - one-eighth Aboriginal. And she looked...well...white/Euro. We had some interesting chats in the week before she moved out, though - about race and culture and where it fit into her life.

Truthfully, I haven't encountered too many people of Aboriginal descent - at least, not that they admitted to me. I don't know. Maybe that's my "coloured people" issue: people of a racial background with which I have no experience, and for whom a strong stereotype is in operation in my mind. (Substance abuse, domestic and child abuse, welfare dependance, and a strong history of governmental abuse of their rights as human beings - all of which are commonly in the media related to the Australian Aboriginal people.)

Not exactly turning night to noon, perhaps, or comfortable self-examination, but some stuff for me to ponder on and to think about how to change my perceptions and reactions.

Comments

[ileliberte.livejournal.com]

Hyperbole is right. Even though I do recognize some of the points as ones that I myself have had issues with, namely the ignoring/bashing of female characters and coming across some hardcore slashers calling girl parts icky, but somehow the generalization of blame according to color and sexual orientation is not sitting well with me. Yes, tongue in cheek, so it's not really upsetting, but criticizing someone negatively simply because they belong to a majority is not particularly playing the game either. No one should have to apologize for simply belonging to a group that generalized even if they are not the particular straight white women it might be directed at. I guess my main problem is with how that list is made into the straight white women's manifesto instead of directed at specific people who do those things. Oh well. I will now go draw some more Teyla.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

I guess my main problem is with how that list is made into the straight white women's manifesto instead of directed at specific people who do those things.

*nods*

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

http://brown-betty.livejournal.com/213836.html

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

http://brown-betty.livejournal.com/213836.html

[ileliberte.livejournal.com]

That was a nice post, but sorry, what I had problems with is still a problem. If I must do the disclaimer, I am not white, and not straight either, so yes, on both counts striking out and not the target of the original post, so no, I am not getting defensive about having my shortcomings pointed out. Indians have had a bad history of women's rights what with dowries and sacrificing widows on the pyre of their dead husbands, but if someone were to say that all Indians believed that women needed to bring in dowry and die with their husbands, then that would have been a massive and incorrect generalization as well. Yes, if it's not about you then it's not about you, but that does not make the fact that such a generalization is incorrect in the first place. Which is, as I said, what bothered me. I don't particularly think that rational people who do fit the straight white women label will be terribly upset about this because obviously it is addressing a specific set of complaints, but in my opinion, and please note, in my opinion, generalizations are not usually the best way to go about making a valid case. I still like the post and especially some of the points that were made but I do wish it had been addressed more specifically.

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

1) Being specific in fandom doesn't work, because it leads to a lot of people saying, "OMG! How can you be so mean to X!" That way leads to fandomwank, and it immediately derails the discussion into one about whether or not people are obligated to talk nice. In much the same way that you are focusing more on how she said what she said than what she said

2) That post was on deadbrowalking. In the general case, straight white chicks who are on DBW a) are working on their racism/sexism issues, and b) recognize that they are not who Anna was talking about.

3) Anna specifically did not want the post metafandom'd, so the goal was not, in point of fact, general fandom distribution to white girls who need a slap in the face. She has written (http://annavtree.livejournal.com/205327.html) general slaps in the face (http://annavtree.livejournal.com/171443.html).

[ileliberte.livejournal.com]

1) My problem wasn't with how she was saying it, it was with who she was addressing it to i.e. a generalized group of people defined by color and sexual orientation rather than specifically those who were the problem (not necessarily by name). I also mentioned in my original comment that I agreed with some of her points and not so much on the others. The tone of the post was very well suited to make it an entertaining post to read without being didactic. So no, I am not bothered more with how she said it. I do understand your point about being fandomwanked if names were named but I was not referring to naming names, but to narrow down the field, since there were assumptions being made about motivation based on nothing more than being white and being straight.

2) That's fine. I'm glad people are working on their issues and realizing it is not them the post is addressed to but again, I have always had problems with generalizations and that point stuck with me.

3) Thank you for the links, they were interesting reads. I would not consider them general slaps in the face either. They were not attributing hangups to people by assuming the reasons, they were giving a guide from someone who is not white and therefore in a good position to see it from a different perspective.

Since this is a textual medium I am not sure how well my own tone carries through, so thank you for the discussion and the interesting links, no I don't have a problem with the post but I still do have problems with the generalization of the addressees and thank you tielan and hope it's not a problem that I continued a conversation in your journal.

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

Wait, so you wouldn't have had a problem if she'd called it "My Rights as an Entitled Straight White Woman in Fandom: A Manifesto" or "Why a h8r wants to slap a bitch"? Because if you don't want her to name names, then I don't understand what you mean by narrowing the field down. The text of the post makes it clear that she is talking specifically about those fans who have issues with Characters of Color, female characters, and lesbians, not just any fan who is straight, white, and female.

And inasmuch as Anna is white (and, I believe, straight, but I am less certain of that), she certainly does realize that not every straight, white, female fan is a dick in any or all of the fashions she describes.

I also do not understand your use of the word 'address.' I am 99% sure that the intent of Anna's post was not, in fact, to change the behavior of the type of fans she was describing in her manifesto, but to describe her frustration with them to a sympathetic audience, i.e. deadbrowalking. So, I think her subject matter was more constrained than the generalization you are reading, and I am sure her intended audience was not the one on whose behalf you are offended.

[ileliberte.livejournal.com]

Some points of clarification, I did not realize the purpose of the community not having come across it before so yes, I do see now what you mean by intended audience. My apologies for not checking out the community profile before. As to the rest, by 'address' I meant the title of the post, which, as I mentioned in my original comment to tielan, was my main problem with the post even though I did see some of the points made as frustrations I myself have had before. In the whole post, my main problem was the title since it generalized and not as much the content (since it was specific about attitudes), so obviously it was not as huge a thing as trying to explain myself has made it seem now. And no, I don't know how it could have been better phrased which is why it was not a constructive comment, it was a part that I had trouble with that I expressed. There really is nothing more to it than that and I'm sorry if it feels to you like I am diminishing the rest of the post or the grievances expressed by focusing on the title and trying to be PC. I'm not and I really don't have any other way to say it than I already have. I also don't have anything else to say and I will not hijack tielan's journal anymore so my part of the conversation is over. Thank you for an interesting discussion.

[tielan]

I will not hijack tielan's journal anymore so my part of the conversation is over. Thank you for an interesting discussion.

The journal hijacking is not a problem - it made an interesting read for my Monday morning!

(and your original post helped me think about why I liked the post and why the tone of it made me uncomfortable - so, thank you.)

[blacksquirrel.livejournal.com]

The post was interesting and could well provoke useful discussion, but it also did some other, less than helpful things by appearing to assert that everyone who professes a particular idea or viewpoint does so for the same reason or out of the same disorder.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I've traveled a very little in Australia, but not nearly enough to get a good handle on exactly how the socio-historical climate functions.

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

http://brown-betty.livejournal.com/213836.html

[blacksquirrel.livejournal.com]

I have read that post, and I don't have a problem with it. In fact, I don't have a huge problem with the original post. It was clearly using humor to tackle a real issue in fandom. While it is important to have places to vent and to analyze what's being said in on-going discussions, my concern was that as far as advancing that discussion, that the post attaches merely one motivation to every action. (i.e. it seems to suggest that a poor body image is women's only reason for reading m/m slash. That could certainly be some people's reason, but not everyone's.)

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

I think your reading of the post is overly narrow. It is not about why people slash emo white dudes but about why they reject other characters who are less white, male, or egocentric.

[blacksquirrel.livejournal.com]

I get that and I'm quite sympathetic, but my concern is with the implication that pleasure in one set of characters necessarily entails rejection of other characters. I completely agree that more interest and appreciation should be devoted to characters of color in fic, which is why I was concerned that this post seemed overly alienating.

In part, I have a problem with the use of hyperbole in many types of political writing. In "Cradle Will Rock" I had similar concerns, for example. As in-group expression I have no problem with it, which is why I didn't comment there. But in terms of contributing to a larger discussion, I don't find it entirely useful.

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

my concern is with the implication that pleasure in one set of characters necessarily entails rejection of other characters Er, I think Anna's point is that this is the annoying attitude that she wants to see stop, not that she wants to perpetuate it. Or are you talking about something else entirely?

As in-group expression I have no problem with it, which is why I didn't comment there. But in terms of contributing to a larger discussion, I don't find it entirely useful.

I think if minority group/viewpoint/position people not!X only talk while keeping in mind the concern that X majority group will be watching, soon the people who are not!X will shut up or talk only in secret clubs where X aren't allowed.

As I said to ileliberte above, Anna wasn't actually talking to straight white chicks who only write about straight white emo men. She was talking to the people who want to strangle those fans. Inasmuch as she clearly signaled this both by posting in deadbrowalking and by saying, "Do not metafandom!", your concern comes off, well, a lot like her statement 10.

[blacksquirrel.livejournal.com]

Ok, here's the thing. I read this as an expression of frustration - which is fine and good. But I don't think it's likely to change opinions or help people talk across difference. That is all. I'm not saying that all communication should be doing the latter, just that this isn't.

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

I suppose I should just get on #10 then and sidetrack this discussion with irrelevant issues, yes? [/sarcasm] Very tongue-in-cheek, but I'm going to have to agree that it unfairly paints all of us straight white women with the same brush.

Although I know I've become much better with race related situations since I met my friend Josie, who is a black African, and she's just taught me so much about the world and race in general because growing up in smallish South Dakota town where there's less than five Asians or African Americans in a school of 1,000 doesn't give you a lot of perspective. Because of her, I've become more conscious of race and less frightened of being confronted with it and stepping out of my comfort zone. I used to be scared to death whenever I went some place where my skin color wasn't the majority and that's a terrible thing to admit, but I was young and I've thankfully overcome it by now.

So...anyway, isn't this the part of the post where I remind everyone to stop hating on the white girls and that everyone should follow my experience 'cause it's the best? ;)

[thelana.livejournal.com]

I'm starting to develop this theory that maybe one aspect are really effed up status quo issues. Like if you have a show set at least tangentially in the white sphere and it features an Asian sidekick characters that [x] doesn't like that character/isn't interested in that character.

But if [x] is watching let's say an epic Asian movie* a la Hero or a dorama or a Bollywood movie, then [x] has to problem recognizing the Asian characters as the heroes of their sphere (same if Mel Gibson makes a movie just about Mayan characters). Why is that so?

Not an overall "brown people/slanted eyes people are always ugly" but maybe some aspect of "I don't know where to *place* them in white society". Which is just odd new issues altogether. [wait, so the only place they have is *outside* somewhere, in their own hierarchical structures, but not in ours?]

*that theory is still flawed btw, because otherwise, shouldn't there be more fannishness on the black movies that exist? From Dreamgirls to Static Shock to Stella Got Her Groove On? Or to people reject those movies/not go into them because they still perceive those characters to be set in white society even if white society isn't visible in this movie? Would there be a difference in perception if the movie was made and set in Africa rather than a movie about minorities? Or is it truly a shade problem?