elections, race, and television casting ponderings

[tielan]

With Obama's election, what are the chances of seeing more non-white faces as main characters in TV shows?

Is it likely to change people's perception now that there's a visibly non-white person up the front as the face of America? Will TV execs, producers, and writers adjust their glasses to make fiction a closer representation of reality, or will they retreat under the belief that the white demographic is no longer being properly represented? Will they do something else entirely?

Will we see change in this area in the next four years?

Comments

[missyvortexdv.livejournal.com]

I think it's doubtful just that will result in much change but it's nice to be hopeful (apart from if you end up disappointed). But here's to change.

[tielan]

To change! (However unlikely it might be.)

[marag.livejournal.com]

I wish I thought that was going to happen. But honestly, I don't know *what* it will take to get decent minority representation on TV, as something other than sidekicks and criminals (mostly criminals, it seems).

[teh-gandu.livejournal.com]

icon = ftw.

[tielan]

TV execs, producers, writers, and casting agents all taking a chance on non-white people as main character, personalities, and actors, I guess.

And white viewers and fans with minds open enough to support characters that don't look like them, and courage enough to speak up when making everything "the white stuff" goes beyond the pale. (Puns respectively intended and unintended.)

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

I really don't know. Actually, the first thing I thought of when I read your post was the show 24. In previous seasons there has been a black President on that show. This season it's a female President. So I wonder if, in some ways, TV has been ahead of the curve.

On the other hand, people who write and produce TV shows usually have a specific audience in mind when they develop and cast their shows. I don't know if that's going to change because of Obama... I have a hard time seeing some PTB exclaiming, "Hey, our President is black -- let's make the main character of our drama/action/scifi series black!" The majority of the people who watch those shows are not black, and the audience always finds it easier to identify with people who look like them.

[sugargroupie.livejournal.com]

The majority of the people who watch those shows are not black, and the audience always finds it easier to identify with people who look like them.

I don't think so. This is part of the problem, in fact. We do watch these shows, we are a part of the audience, and WE have no problem identifying with characters who don't look anything like us. So really, what is the issue here?

[chyti.livejournal.com]

the audience always finds it easier to identify with people who look like them.


The sad thing is I believe that this is only true with white audiences, non-white audiences have had no choice for decades to watch and identify with shows that showed no one that looked like them. I think that people will and could identify with those who are alike them in more ways them looks if given the chance.

The biggest upset of this way of thinking was the cosby show, if a quality show is produced with talent actors regardless of color it can be successful.

[tielan]

As other people have pointed out, though - I'm the audience, too - and I have no trouble identifying with Teyla, or with Sam, or with Faith, or with Diana, not one of whom are of Asiatic blood with an Australian upbringing.

[teh-gandu.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think so.

This is why I'm so glad that British soaps/dramas have a mixture, and certain soaps are now adding more characters of 'colour'

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

One of the things I love the most about Doctor Who is that it is completely colour blind. I can only think of one reference to colour in four seasons!

Merlin seems to have a black character too, but I haven't seen it yet, so I can't really talk about it.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

You post about colour a lot. And it's good, because it makes me think about it. And in thinking about it, I have noticed something about the way I look at TV characters.

Before you brought it to my attention, I did not think of Teyla as being a person of colour. In completely honestly, I thought of Rachel Luttrell as this gorgeous, talented woman...and gave absolutely not thought to the colour of her skin. I was just...completely unaware of it.

When asked to describe people (something I have been told I suck at), I invariably talk about height and voice and smile. I remember one time when I was describing my brother's new girlfriend to my grandmother, and I was all "Well, she's short and she has curly hair and she's got a very nice laugh!" and then grandma was all "You didn't say she was black!" and I was all "...she's black?" when CLEARLY she was. I just don't...think like that.

Perhaps it is the benefit of my Canadian upbringing.

...in relation to you post, I don't think it will make a difference for a while.

ETA: I should add that the exception to my general observation is Benjamin Sisko on Deep Space Nine. A lot of his characterisation is about being black, so it's difficult to overlook. I will say though, the first thing I noticed was his voice!

Also, in a semi-related way, most of the TV I watch is Sci-fi, so I don't really think of people like Worf as black...I think of him as a Klingon! Although now he's the President on Heroes (filmed, cast and written BEFORE the election), so there's something.

[tielan]

I am aware of colour, yes. It's probably in part because I'm a person of colour, myself, so I don't get the luxury of ignoring colour, and so I notice when it seems that a specific kind of treatment is happening because of a character or actor's colour.

I don't love Teyla because she's mixed blood; I love her because she's an awesome kickass woman, canonically capable of so many things, and with a cool head on her gorgeous shoulders.

However, the fact that she's less than lily-white seems to have affected the way the fans and the writers of the show see and define her: secondary, uninteresting to write about, unimportant in the story of the white people, unsuitable to fangirl, without personality. I've already detailed my issues with the inherent racism of Stargate in the comment above so I won't go over that again.

On another sci-fi front, I've seen the same thing happen - this time primarily on the fannish side.

Henry on Eureka. Love the character - awesome guy, well-written. I don't write for Eureka, but if I did, I'd have Henry in any story that featured a big plot - he's the go-to guy for the show, as well as being this great spiritual, intelligent, cheerful soul.

Yet in fanfic, the big slash pairing is Jack/Nathan. Not Jack/Henry - who've had so many friendship, slap-them-on-the-back, you're-a-lifesaver, my-best-buddy moments that they leave Sheppard/McKay gasping somewhere back near the starting line - but Jack/Nathan.

I haven't explored Eureka fandom very deeply, I admit; but on the surface, I'd say that people avoid slashing Jack/Henry because Henry's black.

They don't have the excuse that he's a badly-written, unlikeable, personality-less character; they can't say that they don't 'resonate' with him because he's so intelligent (because Nathan is at least as intelligent, if not more so, and less approachable).

So, yes. I notice colour, and I talk about it in the hope that people who can ignore colour (because they're not coloured, so the discrimination doesn't affect them) think about how people of colour do have to cope with this handicap that isn't always clearly expressed, if it's expressed at all.

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

I had a memorable conversation with a fellow bookseller back in the mid-90s. I came across the book "Larissa" by Emily Devenport (a sci-fi book published by ROC) and had the disconcerting experience of realizing that the main character was black and yet the woman on the cover was white. After confirming I wasn't crazy (I went back and reread the first two chapters just to make sure I was right) and I asked my friend about it. She in turn asked some publishers about it the next time she was in New York.

You know things are bad when you follow up on an issue like this with the words, "Are you sitting down?"

What my friend told me then has only been borne out time and again with every book cover and every show and movie that gets produced - that publishers don't think that white people (specifically) will buy a sci-fi novel with a black person on the cover. By extension, they don't think that black folks read or consume sci-fi.

That's what you're up against - that kind of mentality. And because those same people control big chunks of the media, we get the same tropes over and over again. Would it be better with POC in charge? Maybe, maybe not. We've absorbed many of the same sterotypes of the dominant culture but I'd at least like to get the chance to find out.

Since my TV viewing habits pre-date The Cosby Show, I can safely say a lot of people, regardless of color, sat down to watch shows like Good Times, Chico and the Man (starring the late Freddie Prinze), and The Jeffersons every week when they were on the air. Hell, you can go back as far as Julia (with Diahann Carroll in 1968) and I Spy to find that audiences can be open to different characters. Unfortunately it's harder to chart the course for other minority groups in US TV except to say it's pretty dismal and I wish to hell it would change.

As long as people keep accepting what's given then there's less inclination for producers, writers, and especially, advertisers to take more risks. Also, as always, there need to be more minorities behind the cameras and desks when projects get greenlit. That's where the real power is.

[wikked-angel-78.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately nothing will change. With Obama's win there were increased incidents of hate crimes all around the country. While some are celebrating, many aren't. Networks are scrambling to now add POC to their shows, but this is just a reactionary response and will soon die down.

Recently one of our networks released a statement saying that they plan to diversify their soaps. Here is the article: Gimme A Break (http://www.soapcentral.com/soapcentral/news/2008/1110-cbs_diversity.php). Of course my hackles were raised, as it wasn't the first time something like this was said but wasn't delivered. Their idea of diversifying is to cast POC but only as side show pieces to be bought out occasionally to pimp the white hero/heroine. The POC never have a storyline, a love interest and eventually they will disappear off the show altogether. We refer to it as Rent-A-Minority. Alot of POC met this news with cynicism because we don't see their actions as being sincere since they had to announce it, instead of just going right ahead and doing it.

As for fandom, I don't expect them to ever embrace COC. Without fail everytime that there is a COC on a show, fandom always has the same response: they are boring, I can't relate and if its a woman, she's ugly. The character(s) is ignored by general fandom in fiction, fanart and all fannish endeavours. I've seen it with Teyla, Martha, Henry, Teal'c, Zoe(Firefly) and now I'm seeing it with Gwen(Merlin), etc. The list would be miles long if I continue. Unfortunately since all these folks are not young white male(s) or a white female(s), they aren't of any use to fandom unless they can be used to prop the white hero/heroine.

As a WOC, I don't have the luxury of not seeing colour. I can relate to characters that are White, Asian, Indian, etc, so why is it that white women can't seem to relate to me? Am I really so different?

[missyvortexdv.livejournal.com]

I think it's doubtful just that will result in much change but it's nice to be hopeful (apart from if you end up disappointed). But here's to change.

[tielan]

To change! (However unlikely it might be.)

[marag.livejournal.com]

I wish I thought that was going to happen. But honestly, I don't know *what* it will take to get decent minority representation on TV, as something other than sidekicks and criminals (mostly criminals, it seems).

[teh-gandu.livejournal.com]

icon = ftw.

[tielan]

TV execs, producers, writers, and casting agents all taking a chance on non-white people as main character, personalities, and actors, I guess.

And white viewers and fans with minds open enough to support characters that don't look like them, and courage enough to speak up when making everything "the white stuff" goes beyond the pale. (Puns respectively intended and unintended.)

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

I really don't know. Actually, the first thing I thought of when I read your post was the show 24. In previous seasons there has been a black President on that show. This season it's a female President. So I wonder if, in some ways, TV has been ahead of the curve.

On the other hand, people who write and produce TV shows usually have a specific audience in mind when they develop and cast their shows. I don't know if that's going to change because of Obama... I have a hard time seeing some PTB exclaiming, "Hey, our President is black -- let's make the main character of our drama/action/scifi series black!" The majority of the people who watch those shows are not black, and the audience always finds it easier to identify with people who look like them.

[sugargroupie.livejournal.com]

The majority of the people who watch those shows are not black, and the audience always finds it easier to identify with people who look like them.

I don't think so. This is part of the problem, in fact. We do watch these shows, we are a part of the audience, and WE have no problem identifying with characters who don't look anything like us. So really, what is the issue here?

[teh-gandu.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think so.

This is why I'm so glad that British soaps/dramas have a mixture, and certain soaps are now adding more characters of 'colour'

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

One of the things I love the most about Doctor Who is that it is completely colour blind. I can only think of one reference to colour in four seasons!

Merlin seems to have a black character too, but I haven't seen it yet, so I can't really talk about it.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

You post about colour a lot. And it's good, because it makes me think about it. And in thinking about it, I have noticed something about the way I look at TV characters.

Before you brought it to my attention, I did not think of Teyla as being a person of colour. In completely honestly, I thought of Rachel Luttrell as this gorgeous, talented woman...and gave absolutely not thought to the colour of her skin. I was just...completely unaware of it.

When asked to describe people (something I have been told I suck at), I invariably talk about height and voice and smile. I remember one time when I was describing my brother's new girlfriend to my grandmother, and I was all "Well, she's short and she has curly hair and she's got a very nice laugh!" and then grandma was all "You didn't say she was black!" and I was all "...she's black?" when CLEARLY she was. I just don't...think like that.

Perhaps it is the benefit of my Canadian upbringing.

...in relation to you post, I don't think it will make a difference for a while.

ETA: I should add that the exception to my general observation is Benjamin Sisko on Deep Space Nine. A lot of his characterisation is about being black, so it's difficult to overlook. I will say though, the first thing I noticed was his voice!

Also, in a semi-related way, most of the TV I watch is Sci-fi, so I don't really think of people like Worf as black...I think of him as a Klingon! Although now he's the President on Heroes (filmed, cast and written BEFORE the election), so there's something.

[tielan]

I am aware of colour, yes. It's probably in part because I'm a person of colour, myself, so I don't get the luxury of ignoring colour, and so I notice when it seems that a specific kind of treatment is happening because of a character or actor's colour.

I don't love Teyla because she's mixed blood; I love her because she's an awesome kickass woman, canonically capable of so many things, and with a cool head on her gorgeous shoulders.

However, the fact that she's less than lily-white seems to have affected the way the fans and the writers of the show see and define her: secondary, uninteresting to write about, unimportant in the story of the white people, unsuitable to fangirl, without personality. I've already detailed my issues with the inherent racism of Stargate in the comment above so I won't go over that again.

On another sci-fi front, I've seen the same thing happen - this time primarily on the fannish side.

Henry on Eureka. Love the character - awesome guy, well-written. I don't write for Eureka, but if I did, I'd have Henry in any story that featured a big plot - he's the go-to guy for the show, as well as being this great spiritual, intelligent, cheerful soul.

Yet in fanfic, the big slash pairing is Jack/Nathan. Not Jack/Henry - who've had so many friendship, slap-them-on-the-back, you're-a-lifesaver, my-best-buddy moments that they leave Sheppard/McKay gasping somewhere back near the starting line - but Jack/Nathan.

I haven't explored Eureka fandom very deeply, I admit; but on the surface, I'd say that people avoid slashing Jack/Henry because Henry's black.

They don't have the excuse that he's a badly-written, unlikeable, personality-less character; they can't say that they don't 'resonate' with him because he's so intelligent (because Nathan is at least as intelligent, if not more so, and less approachable).

So, yes. I notice colour, and I talk about it in the hope that people who can ignore colour (because they're not coloured, so the discrimination doesn't affect them) think about how people of colour do have to cope with this handicap that isn't always clearly expressed, if it's expressed at all.

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

I had a memorable conversation with a fellow bookseller back in the mid-90s. I came across the book "Larissa" by Emily Devenport (a sci-fi book published by ROC) and had the disconcerting experience of realizing that the main character was black and yet the woman on the cover was white. After confirming I wasn't crazy (I went back and reread the first two chapters just to make sure I was right) and I asked my friend about it. She in turn asked some publishers about it the next time she was in New York.

You know things are bad when you follow up on an issue like this with the words, "Are you sitting down?"

What my friend told me then has only been borne out time and again with every book cover and every show and movie that gets produced - that publishers don't think that white people (specifically) will buy a sci-fi novel with a black person on the cover. By extension, they don't think that black folks read or consume sci-fi.

That's what you're up against - that kind of mentality. And because those same people control big chunks of the media, we get the same tropes over and over again. Would it be better with POC in charge? Maybe, maybe not. We've absorbed many of the same sterotypes of the dominant culture but I'd at least like to get the chance to find out.

Since my TV viewing habits pre-date The Cosby Show, I can safely say a lot of people, regardless of color, sat down to watch shows like Good Times, Chico and the Man (starring the late Freddie Prinze), and The Jeffersons every week when they were on the air. Hell, you can go back as far as Julia (with Diahann Carroll in 1968) and I Spy to find that audiences can be open to different characters. Unfortunately it's harder to chart the course for other minority groups in US TV except to say it's pretty dismal and I wish to hell it would change.

As long as people keep accepting what's given then there's less inclination for producers, writers, and especially, advertisers to take more risks. Also, as always, there need to be more minorities behind the cameras and desks when projects get greenlit. That's where the real power is.

[wikked-angel-78.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately nothing will change. With Obama's win there were increased incidents of hate crimes all around the country. While some are celebrating, many aren't. Networks are scrambling to now add POC to their shows, but this is just a reactionary response and will soon die down.

Recently one of our networks released a statement saying that they plan to diversify their soaps. Here is the article: Gimme A Break (http://www.soapcentral.com/soapcentral/news/2008/1110-cbs_diversity.php). Of course my hackles were raised, as it wasn't the first time something like this was said but wasn't delivered. Their idea of diversifying is to cast POC but only as side show pieces to be bought out occasionally to pimp the white hero/heroine. The POC never have a storyline, a love interest and eventually they will disappear off the show altogether. We refer to it as Rent-A-Minority. Alot of POC met this news with cynicism because we don't see their actions as being sincere since they had to announce it, instead of just going right ahead and doing it.

As for fandom, I don't expect them to ever embrace COC. Without fail everytime that there is a COC on a show, fandom always has the same response: they are boring, I can't relate and if its a woman, she's ugly. The character(s) is ignored by general fandom in fiction, fanart and all fannish endeavours. I've seen it with Teyla, Martha, Henry, Teal'c, Zoe(Firefly) and now I'm seeing it with Gwen(Merlin), etc. The list would be miles long if I continue. Unfortunately since all these folks are not young white male(s) or a white female(s), they aren't of any use to fandom unless they can be used to prop the white hero/heroine.

As a WOC, I don't have the luxury of not seeing colour. I can relate to characters that are White, Asian, Indian, etc, so why is it that white women can't seem to relate to me? Am I really so different?