comments on predictability: The Return - Part II

[tielan]

Were there any spy/action television cliches they didn't use in this episode?

1. When characters are in peril, there is always at least one inept person in the midst, who insists on asking pointless questions, thereby creating a comedic situation as the knowledgeable person makes fun of them, directly or indirectly.

2. Anything that's "obvious once you get there", inevitably isn't.

3. Time-wasting in the forms of: "Uh-oh!" "Oh no!" "Uhhhh..." "Well, as a matter of fact..." and other such 'line-fillers' that are not only unnecessary in an urgent situation, but rampantly mugging for the camera.

4. Turning your back on an enemy inevitably results in that enemy getting up and surprising you. This law runs both ways: bad guys who turn their back on the good guys get sprung, too.

5. The evil guys must monologue, thereby sealing their fate.

That said, I enjoyed the 'twist' at the end of the episode, the team-ness, and the looks Teyla and Elizabeth kept exchanging. Plus, John ends up with his face nearly in Ronon's crotch, Carson calls Teyla, 'dear', Ronon is much more strapping than any US Marine and Liz damn well knows it, and Elizabeth hugs Jack, who looks like he's thinking, "Uh, okay, what do I do now?"

Incidentally, I would like to point out that it's much more likely that Elizabeth would leave Atlantis in the hands of a trusted ally, than that Jack would leave Atlantis in the hands of people who've totally disobeyed his standing orders, even if they have saved his ass. And even if he would, Landry wouldn't - it would be an extremely bad example on a very wide scale.

However, the next PTB that writes Rodney declaring, "Oh Noes!" (or similar exclamation) with a pregnant pause after it, is so going to get a lump of coal in their stocking. Enough is enough. Let someone else mug for a change.

Not as bad as I feared it might be, but I'm growing cynical about this show.

Comments

[irony-rocks.livejournal.com]

Growing cynical? Sounds like your already there.

Gotta agree with a lot of what you've said. I just watched it two days, expecting something really awesome considering how many people have been gushing about this episode, and it left me . . . unimpressed. I can't pinpoint exactly why, other than the campy stuff that you've listed (but when it comes to Stargate, I expect campy, so you know, no shocker there).

I suppose I was hoping for something more intense, emotional, along the line of "The Eye." Now there was a season opener worthy of praise. Every person on the cast had something to do in the "The Storm"/"The Eye." Even the often ignored trio - Carson, Ford, and Teyla - had meaty lines and chick fights to participate in. That much is unlikely to happen these days.

[tielan]

This ep excelled in The Campy.

And the twist was good, yes. But you're right - they don't really have intense stories anymore. And they've boxed themselves in by having too many stories/plots/technologies that can be fixed by more technology - and the only one who's been given any explicit technological competence (although it's implied in John, and Teyla, and several of the others) is Rodney.

(A psychological blind spot of the western world, along the lines of global warming - the belief that yet greater technology awaits that can push the reset button?)

The other characters could come up with concepts that Rodney could implement with technology: someone else could have suggested the 'fake plan vs real plan' idea, for instance. Or could have come up with the idea to have the Replicators 'kill themselves' through their own action. Inventive ideas are not limited to the technologically knowledgeable, and strategy would surely be John and Ronon's stronger suits.

...I'm preaching to the choir again, aren't I?

Sorry you get so much of this from me! :)

[cherryblosomjen.livejournal.com]

Wow, I didn't realize the episode was airing already in Australia. I'm tempted to search for a download somewhere.

[tielan]

It's not. Canada showed it.

[ladyeclectic79.livejournal.com]

After Return I the second half seemed so very anti-climatic. :( I'm just hoping that something really does happen to John in so far as his military career is concerned; if they gloss over that I'm going to lose some respect for the writers. Even Jack said he was fired; I don't want him to leave Atlantis but, well, something has to happen to him as a consequence of his actions.

I'm hoping I had just had my hopes too high after part 1's beautimous goodness and the rest will be good too...

[tielan]

Someone's comment was that the lack of consequences is why SGA will never be great sci-fi (her comparison was BSG, which is still dealing with the ramifications of the previous season, seven eps in).

Thinking about it now, I'm not even sure SGA is sci-fi. To my thinking, sci-fi should address the intersection of humanity with technology and the social, societal, and psychological effects of the one on the other...like BSG does.

By that definition, SGA's really just fantasy in a technocratic setting.

[alasse-fae.livejournal.com]

Ronon is much more strapping than any US Marine and Liz damn well knows it

Amen. I'll take a Young Strapping Satedan anytime..

[tielan]

There's a ficbit on the way. When I get my ass into gear.

[dirty-diana.livejournal.com]

Jack would leave Atlantis in the hands of people who've totally disobeyed his standing orders, even if they have saved his ass. And even if he would, Landry wouldn't - it would be an extremely bad example on a very wide scale.

Well, SG-1 kinda set a precedent back in season one for sneaking through the gate to save the world and not having any consequences after. Apparently the USAF is very forgiving.

At this point I just smile at the tv and pet the pretty.

[tielan]

I suspect a leetle more leniency would be granted for "saving our homeworld" than for "saving distant outpost that we only started knowing about four years ago". We are a slightly selfish planet.

Still, it's a very very forgiving USAF we're shown!

(And I think the comparison I made still stands.)

[dirty-diana.livejournal.com]

Yeah - I think that's a basic problem, comparitively, with the Atlantis concept, the fact that they're so far away and insulated. So what if the Wraith get them, really. But the episodes did attempt to show that the Replicators had a foothold from Atlantis, so they saved Earth too. And the entire Milky Way. In a roundabout way. Not that they seemed very excited about it.

I have this whole post in my head about how The Return started something, in terms of the so what? question, that they should have accomplished a long time ago. And then sort of renegs. It's a weird little show.

[madjm.livejournal.com]

I thought it was fairly entertaining. But I didn't have very high expectations in the first place.

[tielan]

Entertaining, yes. But also cliche and 'same old' and... *sigh*

So many expectations: so little fillage.

[toasteronfire.livejournal.com]

I was also let down. Return 1 had some great character moments, but Return 2 felt like too much SG1 and not enough SGA. I mean, yay Jack and all but I tune into Atlantis to primarily watch Atlantis characters, not tons of screentime for Jack/Woolsey banter. And when they did feature the Atlantis cast most of the dialog went to Shep and Rodney, as usual, with snippets here and there for the rest. After all that build-up in the first part, the Ancients were all killed offscreen and given only a passing mention here. Also, the reset button strikes again and no one gets even the slightest slap on the wrist (honestly I'll be shocked if TPTB ever start doing this).

Heh, Elizabeth now has a trend of hugging (glomping even) men who respond immediately with the "wtf?!" face. :)

[tielan]

As said above, someone else commented that the lack of consequences is one reason why SGA will never be a great show.

I'm wondering if another is because SGA pretty much just SG1 all over again - except that the Jack and Sam analogues are both male. It's still Earth centric, they're the only ones who can fight the Wraith, and there's nothing about other cultures, about the Pegasus galaxy, that doesn't get dismissed within an episode.

You know, I'm waiting for the day when Elizabeth hugs someone who's anal about their personal space and they shove her away.

[blade-girl.livejournal.com]

My expectations weren't too high for the second part, primarily because I found part one to be very problematic plotwise. (I mean, a shipful of Ancients arrives, and all we get is a couple of brief scenes wherein they kick the expedition out of the city? Hello! Discovery of living, non-Ascended Ancients is a BIG DEAL in the Stargate universe. With almost no screen time and absolutely no development, it was obvious that this either wasn't really happening (my personal hope), or that the writers just needed a plot device and didn't want to waste time sanding the edges and painting over the primer.

Part two, by contrast, seemed well put-together and played smoothly. I get the idea that this was the part they really wanted to write and that part one was slapped together as the means to an end that it clearly was.

And consequences? Why on earth would they start that now, after all these years? I mean, yeah, there certainly should be ramifications, but we all should know better than to expect them in this franchise! :grins:

All that said, I enjoyed the episode, loved the teaminess, and was even taken in by the twist. I just don't approach SGA the same way I watch other shows that take themselves a bit more seriously.

[tielan]

Oh, I agree that Return I had plot issues all over the shop; but Return II just bugged me for the cliches.

All they needed was the little LED countdown when they set the C4 detonators...

*coughs*

Both were cute for team angles, though.

Ehhh...I think I'm being spoiled by BSG in the sci-fi department. Characters and consequences...and SGA just seems a lot more flimsy in that department than SG1 ever was.

[blade-girl.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think BSG spoils us for pretty much most television drama, sci-fi or otherwise. You nailed it: characters and consequences, which also implies continuity. BSG has it, SGA doesn't - although I would argue that SG-1 was no better in that regard. It's just that SGA set the bar a little higher from the outset by raising a lot of moral and ethical issues in the first two seasons, which have yet to be followed up on adequately. I think that's why it feels like a bigger disappointment than its predecessor.