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You know, on one hand, there's a certain...vindication...in the idea of 'being right' about a canon ship.
On the other hand, most of my OTPs would probably remain my OTPs, no matter what happened in canon. So there's what's canon or canonical, and there's what I prefer to see in fanon.
Atlantis isn't necessarily a good example of this. As anyone with half a braincell is aware, my fanon OTPs are John/Teyla and Elizabeth/Ronon. John/Teyla is one of those pairings that has the support of the actor who plays John Sheppard, as well as the broader support of the PTB. Sure, the interaction factor is skewed to John/Rodney and John/Elizabeth (which is one part of why those two pairings have the lion's share of supporters, fic, pics, and vids,) but the emotional moments - the ones where John reveals intimate bits and pieces about himself that he's uncomfortable about showing - tend to be related to Teyla.
At any rate, there's a certain amount of murkiness about the question of Who Is John Sheppard's Twu Wuv? It will be ably assisted by fandom politics, the hemmings and hawwings of TPTB, and the desperate need to be 'right' about a pairing for all shippers (slash and het) everywhere.
And, given that this is the Stargate PTB, I have little doubt that the murkiness will continue long after Skiffy has decided to dump the show.
Anyway, I personally feel Atlantis is a bust for this illustration, so I'm going to use Harry Potter as an example instead.
My OTP in Harry Potter fanon is Harry/Luna. I like Ron/Hermione, Harry/Ginny, and have a nagging fondness for Draco/Hermione (don't ask why, I haven't analysed it), but ultimately, Harry/Luna is my One True Pairing.
And, yeah, canonically, Harry's just a little in love with Ginny. Which tends to screw up the whole Harry/Luna 4EVA thing.
I've tried writing Harry/Ginny. It doesn't happen. I know what JKR intends and while it's a little disappointing, I've survived that disappointment. I still occasionally get Harry/Luna ideas, and hopefully will have more when Book 7 comes out. But in the meantime...I'm happy to pretend that all is well in Harry/Luna-land, and that Harry just doesn't realise he cares about Luna.
And it works out okay. I mean, the books aren't about Harry falling in love - with Ginny or anyone else. That's a sideline (albeit a rather large one in HBP), and he's friends with Ron, Hermione, Neville, and Luna in various shapes and forms.
Oddly enough, I'm okay with that. It's the dynamic I like, rather than the OMG!WeWereRight!
I know some fanon shippers take the same attitude, no matter their pairing.
Pairings are like Immortals: there can only be one. Okay, so usually, there's only one, although things in shows can change from season to season, and then there's Torchwood, that tends to laugh at other show's quaint definitions of sexuality. (Torchwood may not always be up there on the plot side of things, but they're definitely omnisexual.)
Ultimately, it's nice to see one's OTP up in canon. I won't deny that I've had my gloating moments. On the other hand, I can hardly fault others for sticking to their pairings when I stick to mine in the face of canon evidence - even if I dislike the pairings they're clinging to (or the way they portray them, or what I think the pairing says about the characters, or the people who ship that pairing who've failed to endear themselves to me).
So, yeah, fannishly, I'm all over John/Teyla. And Elizabeth/Ronon. And Teyla/Rodney. And Rodney/Ronon. And Teyla/Lorne. And team!love. It's nice to get 'moments' between my preferred pairings, although right now, I'm more interested in Teyla's role in Season Four. John/Teyla would be a nice filip, but isn't a priority. Frankly, I'm going to ship them, even if John goes all kissy-faced on a main cast character in a future ep. Although I surely hope he doesn't because John going romantically kissy-faced on anyone? OMGWTFPODPERSON???
I like the characters, I like the bits I've seen between them and the way John plays the hero for everyone, but softens up for Teyla. And the fact that I like them isn't going to be changed, even by 'canon ship'.
Next meta: technological primitives and the 'either/or' assumption.
On the other hand, most of my OTPs would probably remain my OTPs, no matter what happened in canon. So there's what's canon or canonical, and there's what I prefer to see in fanon.
Atlantis isn't necessarily a good example of this. As anyone with half a braincell is aware, my fanon OTPs are John/Teyla and Elizabeth/Ronon. John/Teyla is one of those pairings that has the support of the actor who plays John Sheppard, as well as the broader support of the PTB. Sure, the interaction factor is skewed to John/Rodney and John/Elizabeth (which is one part of why those two pairings have the lion's share of supporters, fic, pics, and vids,) but the emotional moments - the ones where John reveals intimate bits and pieces about himself that he's uncomfortable about showing - tend to be related to Teyla.
At any rate, there's a certain amount of murkiness about the question of Who Is John Sheppard's Twu Wuv? It will be ably assisted by fandom politics, the hemmings and hawwings of TPTB, and the desperate need to be 'right' about a pairing for all shippers (slash and het) everywhere.
And, given that this is the Stargate PTB, I have little doubt that the murkiness will continue long after Skiffy has decided to dump the show.
Anyway, I personally feel Atlantis is a bust for this illustration, so I'm going to use Harry Potter as an example instead.
My OTP in Harry Potter fanon is Harry/Luna. I like Ron/Hermione, Harry/Ginny, and have a nagging fondness for Draco/Hermione (don't ask why, I haven't analysed it), but ultimately, Harry/Luna is my One True Pairing.
And, yeah, canonically, Harry's just a little in love with Ginny. Which tends to screw up the whole Harry/Luna 4EVA thing.
I've tried writing Harry/Ginny. It doesn't happen. I know what JKR intends and while it's a little disappointing, I've survived that disappointment. I still occasionally get Harry/Luna ideas, and hopefully will have more when Book 7 comes out. But in the meantime...I'm happy to pretend that all is well in Harry/Luna-land, and that Harry just doesn't realise he cares about Luna.
And it works out okay. I mean, the books aren't about Harry falling in love - with Ginny or anyone else. That's a sideline (albeit a rather large one in HBP), and he's friends with Ron, Hermione, Neville, and Luna in various shapes and forms.
Oddly enough, I'm okay with that. It's the dynamic I like, rather than the OMG!WeWereRight!
I know some fanon shippers take the same attitude, no matter their pairing.
Pairings are like Immortals: there can only be one. Okay, so usually, there's only one, although things in shows can change from season to season, and then there's Torchwood, that tends to laugh at other show's quaint definitions of sexuality. (Torchwood may not always be up there on the plot side of things, but they're definitely omnisexual.)
Ultimately, it's nice to see one's OTP up in canon. I won't deny that I've had my gloating moments. On the other hand, I can hardly fault others for sticking to their pairings when I stick to mine in the face of canon evidence - even if I dislike the pairings they're clinging to (or the way they portray them, or what I think the pairing says about the characters, or the people who ship that pairing who've failed to endear themselves to me).
So, yeah, fannishly, I'm all over John/Teyla. And Elizabeth/Ronon. And Teyla/Rodney. And Rodney/Ronon. And Teyla/Lorne. And team!love. It's nice to get 'moments' between my preferred pairings, although right now, I'm more interested in Teyla's role in Season Four. John/Teyla would be a nice filip, but isn't a priority. Frankly, I'm going to ship them, even if John goes all kissy-faced on a main cast character in a future ep. Although I surely hope he doesn't because John going romantically kissy-faced on anyone? OMGWTFPODPERSON???
I like the characters, I like the bits I've seen between them and the way John plays the hero for everyone, but softens up for Teyla. And the fact that I like them isn't going to be changed, even by 'canon ship'.
Next meta: technological primitives and the 'either/or' assumption.
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I am one of the adult-shippers in HP, mostly things like Dumbledore/McGonagall or Remus/Tonks, sometimes a bit of Fleur/someone etc., but I have no OTP. Never had one for any fandom, actually, I always multiship. The closest i come to an OTP in SGA is Weir/McKay (fueled by my intense dislike for Sheppard...) and yeah,... that's SO not going to happen :)
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But I never perceived Stargate Atlantis being about John Sheppard. Sure, he's a main cast character, but the degree to which his character has taken over the show (to the point where he almost always saves the day, and if he's the one in trouble, then he saves himself rather than someone else doing it for him)...
It's almost Gary Stu-ish.
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He is??? Further proof of how out of fandom I am....
Although at this point I'm not really caring. I'd rather good character stories than kissy-faced-ness. And considering the lack of that for the women on this show...*sigh*
Alrighty, shutting up before I depress myself...;P
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I'd rather good character stories than kissy-faced-ness.
Bingo! Unfortunately, we will get neither good character stories for the women, nor kissy-faced-ness.
Stick to BSG, hon. *hugs*
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And yeah, sticking to BSG good. That and Bones.
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Oh, yeah. People are getting antsy. Actually, so am I!
Mostly, I think, people want to know where they stand. The uncertainty's the worst.
I would love it if 'Sunday' pointed towards John/Teyla. But there is no holding of the breath. TPTB giveth, and TPTB taketh away...and mightily does the fandom go up in flames...
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*g*
I have pairings I prefer to write, and for which I like to see canon interaction. But, often, I'll take a look at other pairings involving those characters. So I kinda like Kara/Lee, but at the same time, I rather liked Lee/Dee when they first introduced it, although Kara/Anders felt a little out of left field to me. Kara meets this guy and falls instantly in love? I have trouble buying it.
And I've just realised I tend to use the term 'OTP' as the pairings I really like and ship the most - not really my one true pairing.
Which doesn't confuse the matter at all...
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I'm a secret Kara/Helo shipper, mostly b/c I see it as a fun thing, that he accepts her for what she is.
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So I find a lot of the people who came over from SG-1 tend to be similarly vicious in Atlantis. Same old, same old.
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Not the same. I mean, SG-1 had vicious 'ship wars - which I mainly know only from legend, I am not sure how I missed them - but they were mainly het vs slash, right? Which goes on lots of places. You didn't get hetters battling hetters. Correct me if you experienced lots of that.
I know more about the Daniel Jackson wars, but none of the ones I know were 'ship-based. And a lot of Sam/Jack people I know are of the opinion that the 'ship wars were centred more around Sam hate. Weird how perspective changes everything.
I also don't find *that* much crossover between people who are/were faniish about SG-1, and people who are fannish about Atlantis. A lot of times there's a distinct divide. YMMV.
Anyway - so not what I meant to be babbling on about. What I'm talking about is not 'ship wars in general, but the specific need for one side to be proven right on screen, and the other side to be proven wrong. God. Who cares. I hope none of us are ever proven right, because the writers are not romance writers and it would suck.
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I find a lot of ship wars center around a character - and more specifically, the kind of character that fans identify with.
In the case of SG1 ship wars, the character I found who tended to be idolised to the point of sanctification was Daniel: civilian, geeky, diplomatic/learned. There was a prevailing attitude among the more rabid Daniel-fans of "Jack doesn't deserve someone as awesome as Daniel, but Daniel loves him in spite of his faults all the same!"
In Atlantis ship wars, Elizabeth's the idolised character - to the point of Mary Sueism in many cases: civilian, diplomatic/learned. And the same prevailing attitude among rabid Elizabeth-fans is "John doesn't deserve a woman as fantastic as Elizabeth, but she loves him in spite of his kirking!"
My perception is that Sam and Teyla (or Ginny or Dee) are incidental to the picture in ship wars - they're just the 'other woman' stealing 'the hero' away from the 'favoured character'.
Yes, there's always a desire to be proven right. I feel it myself - it's nice to be vindicated or supported. Although you're quite right: the writers aren't good with emotions
or anything that might vaguely involve the non-technical women, so the execution would probably be questionably done. :-/no subject
Wow, the perspective thing again. I don't know any fan that *likes* Elizabeth, let alone idolises her. To the point where I have no response to that, because we are apparently hanging out in different fandoms.
Really different fandoms. :)
And I don't know the Harry Potter examples at all. But I hear that's insane.
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o_O
I used to have a lot of Elizabeth fans on my f-list, most of them don't read this LJ anymore, though. I may not be enough of an Elizabeth fan to associate with - who knows?
Anyroad, have you ever been to Gateworld forums? Quite a few posters there hold the view of 'perfect Elizabeth Weir'.
Mary Sue Lizzie is also found in a few pockets on LJ - most notably the AU communities, although in early days of fandom I read a couple of Elizabeth-centric stories that either made her out to be a saint, or played down another character's abilities in order to make her look good.
Where do you hang out in fandom (if anywhere), BTW? I figured you for an Elizabeth fan (most of the people who read my Elizabeth/Ronon fic seem to be fans of Elizabeth).
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I am an Elizabeth fan. Huge. I'm just, well, the only one that I know. :) I hang out with McSheppers mostly, I think, a holdover from my Jack/Daniel days. I'm their token Rodney-hating friend. And some non-OTPish Shep fans. And they all think Elizabeth is annoying and a poor leader and it just goes on. There is an element of "other woman" hating in there, but outside of that they just don't like her.
But I really don't know anyone in this fandom who agrees with me on a lot. Which may be why I bitch so much. :)
Shipping...
I don't really follow the whole OTP, and canon ships ever it seems. It's rare for me to follow through and stick with them. As for Harry Potter, I dislike Harry, but I can see Luna shipped with him and I'm an avid Luna/Blaise lover, but Ginny I only see with Draco---it really means nothing that they don't end up together, because I don't read the books so I don't get disappointed or feel in some way slighted, it's just fun interpretation by writers. This is similar to my Smallville ship of Chloe/Lex---I only saw 15 minutes of the show in total, counting commercials, was utterly disappointed in the dominate characters and focused on two I could like and ran with it.
They'll never be together but that has not dwindled my shipping of the couple and I think mores the case because I'm not influenced by what is developed on the show. While I know many other people who watch the show, not only lose a liking for the show which moves into the ship and they leave it altogether, since they become emotionally tied really to the shows.
As for SGA, I have to agree with seeing the ship Canon, and with the demotion of Weir like Pluto---it further creates the solitary ship, since most of those I speak too and I also believe that the Sam/Jack shippers will in no way ship Sam/John. Weir's demotion ends up solidifying a sort of end to the ship in my estimation and with the focus of arcs around Teyla and the team, we'll probably see JT as the visible ship on the show.
Of course we'll be dealing with backlash from Shweirs who will downgrade the show and the couple as undynamic---it's already turned GW upside down; it won't stop me from shipping!! :D
Again bad for Weir character, although I get the feeling Torri may have requested the lessening of her role. Good for the other's and fleshing out a few of the other characters...
As I was talking to a few other JT'ers I could so picture Carter talking to Teyla about how to handle boys and their toys, and to keep them in line when they get out of control. Especially John, since I get the feeling him and Jack have very similar personalities. :D
Re: Shipping...
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And if you don't mind me butting in, I find shipping a really interesting psychological phenomenom. I watch mostly crime shows like CSI, Bones etc, these days and I really find myself becoming an anti-shipper and throwing socks at the TV whenever I see even the faintest signs of it, even though I've been a shipper in the past. It's really interesting watching shows NOT for ship and then seeing folks on my flist post about the same show in shipper terms and thinking "Eh?"
To me shipping is all about projective identification and so is very much a personal thing to do with how you identify with the two folk in the relationship and what you feel is "romantic". So therefore, arguing about it is totally pointless and futile. It would be like arguing over cloud shapes. Over there, A might see one type of shape and over here B see another. Yet both of their views are equally as valid. So why get all steamed up over it?
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However in regards to Stargate For years I wasn't into any ship. I liked Jack/Sam as well as Daniel/Shar'ra but it was such a minor role in the show I didn't give it a thought. In fact it wasn't until Vala came on the show that I even thought about romance on the show. Of course I've seen Unending and am very pleased that my ship made it.
Atlantis is a completely different for me. After the two hour premier I shipped JT. I don't think I can see either John or Teyla with anyone else. I can *read* about Telya and Ronon and John/OC but on the show- I just don't see either of them with anyone else.