10 Unpopular Fandom Opinions

[tielan]

About half are generic fandom opinions, a handful are specific to Stargate. But all were developed from observations in and around Stargate fandom. Some apply to me personally, some apply to you personally; just don't feel the need to take it as a directed insult. (Although 'taking things as a directed insult' seems to be the way of Stargate fandom lately.)

10 Unpopular Fandom Opinions

Popular ≠ Canon. A fandom majority on your piece of fanon does not make it canon. A fandom majority on the favourite character does not make that character the star (or the 'heart and soul') of the show. A fandom majority on your preferred pairing does not make it canon. Canon is the show and the show is canon. Some pieces of fanon can march in parallel with canon, while others are not only marching perpendicular to the plane of reference but also in the opposite direction - however, neither are canon.

Fans ≠ Viewers. The former are people who are dedicated to the show, buy the merch, go to cons, discuss the concepts the show brings up. The latter are people who watch the show on a regular basis but are otherwise uninvolved in the show.

Shows are made for Viewers, not Fans. The merchandising is bonus pocket money after the advertising companies have paid big grand for the privilege of screening their products in the show or in the ad-breaks of a show. What keeps a show going are the Viewers, not the Fans.

Fans should not always get what they want, anymore than children should not be indulged with every whim and tantrum they throw. Life is about winning some, and then sighing and dealing when you lose others. It's as much about something that our society doesn't promote any more - being a good sport when your numbers don't come up - as it is about striving to be more than we presently are.

Fans tend to pick their favourite ship by selecting the character they most resemble, resonate with, or idealise. Then they pair him/her up - usually with a hero-character, although often the pairing is related to the dynamic that the fan would most like to see echoed in their own relationship. This bleeds into the next unpopular opinion.

The reason that shipping is such an emotional situation is because a lot of fans have an idealised over-identification problem: they're not shipping two characters - they're shipping an idealised version of themselves as a character from the show with their idealised mate. This is particularly a problem among fans who've endured social backlash for being technical, bookish, geeky, or fannish, because the character they're over-identifying with is usually technical, bookish, geeky, or fannish, yet also good-looking, socially apt, or accepted/appreciated by the people who 'matter'.

John Sheppard is TPTB's Mary Sue Insert. In spite of being 'a dork', 'never seeing these things coming', and the 'Mensa' factor, John Sheppard is very much every fanboi's dream self: intelligent without being too intellectual; no suave, charming Romeo, yet has with the women falling all over him; is always the saviour of the day - carrying out the physical action no matter whose idea it was, or who has set up the situation he's saving; yes, even the emotional screwed-upness is part and parcel of his self-insert power. Tragic past, anyone?

The Stargate Universes are basically a galactic conceptualisation of America's Power In The World. The only peoples who really matter are Americans Earth. The only peoples who've ever truly saved the day or sacrificed for someone else are Americans Earthlings. The only enemies worth fighting are those who have a personal vendetta against Americans Earthlings. The only people who've ever had a brilliant idea in the history of all civilisation through all galaxies are Americans Earthlings. And the only people fighting for democracy freedom for all peoples are Americans Earthlings!

No pairing between main characters has or ever will be 'outright vindicated' in Stargate universe. TPTB will hint and they will point. They will suggest and imply and make comments in interviews and all. But there will never be an open declaration of affection from anyone on the regular cast to anyone on the regular cast. Anyone expecting their pairing to be vindicated requires a cricket bat upside the chin, because it will hurt less than the letdown at the end of the show when there are no kisses or bedroom scenes, nothing to suggest anything more to the unshippy mind than friendship.

The sense of fannish entitlement - that fans 'deserve' something for being faithful followers of a show - is never a pretty thing. Ever. It's not pretty in people I despise, it's not pretty in people I respect, it's not pretty in myself. We, the fans, don't 'deserve' anything. We don't. Really. Not from TPTB, not from the actors, not from our fellow fans. There are things we'd like, sure, but it is not our God-given right to have them. Anyone who thinks it is needs a good smack and a lesson in 'you are not the center of the universe', because they clearly didn't learn it at age five.

I did say they were unpopular opinions...

Comments

[thelana.livejournal.com]

I think I love you :)

The sense of fannish entitlement - that fans 'deserve' something for being faithful followers of a show

That has always bugged me so much.

I actually notice that a lot too in musician fandoms. Where people act like they can buy rights on the artist by buying merchandise. Which to me is bullshit. If you buy a CD what you get is *drumroll* a CD, you can listen to it, you can enjoy it and that is what you get for your money. If you buy a t-shirt with an artist's face on it, what you get it a t-shirt, it can potentially cover your body and warm you and THAT IS WHAT YOU GET. You put your money on the table and you get something tangible (a CD, a t-shirt) in return. If you are stupid enough to buy it that is your problem but no artist/writer/actor owes you anything beyond that goods that you receive.

If you are a viewer, what you get is an hour of television that you will hopefully enjoy. It does not get a guaratee that you will get good hours of television eternally just because you watched one (or more) episodes.

TPTB have a *self-interest* in keeping viewers attached, but they don't have an obligation to do so. If they no longer like the show, if they don't mind losing their own job and starting somewhere else then it's their right to tank *their own show*. My theory is that most of them wouldn't want that because (1) people like having a job and (2) I assume they have at least some emotional or artistic attachements to the characters, but yeah, it is totally their right.

[tielan]

I've done the fannish entitlement thing before. And then I realised what it was and smacked myself for it.

These days, I express interest in the characters and storylines of which I'd like to see more, send gifts to my favourite actors, writers, and PTB, and generally hope for the best.

But the sense of 'fannish entitlement' has been (ma)lingering around lately, and it's really bugging me. I've seen two very distinct examples in the last week - and that's off the f-list. Having not been able to get at the f-list (and not having time to pay attention), I'm desperately hoping the sentiments aren't being echoed by anyone there. I'd like to think I have taste and discrimination in my f-list - but wouldn't we all? *g*

[pandora-576.livejournal.com]

LOL, boy these seem to cross ALL fandoms. And to be honest I've been guilty of a few myself. I'm hoping that I'm out growing them and accepting the truth of the show as it is.

I loved this one particularly -
The reason that shipping is such an emotional situation is because a lot of fans have an idealised over-identification problem

That's currently happening with some of the fans in a non-SGA fandom I'm involved. ::headdesks::

::HUGS:: for a great post.

Oh and there's always the - my favorite character can do no wrong, because when the do something that's not nice or hurtful they only did it because of noble self-sacrificing reasons.

[tielan]

my favorite character can do no wrong, because when the do something that's not nice or hurtful they only did it because of noble self-sacrificing reasons.

Yeah. Honestly? I love all the characters, but there are moments when they fuck up liek whoa. And sometimes, it's just because they're...wait for it, wait for it...human...

I'm very cynical about SGA 'favourite characters' - partly because of SG-1 fandom, and partly because I've seen too many communities where canon characters have been Mary Sue'd in order to make the character cool, or to justify the author/originator's preference for the character.

IMO, if you can't write a character 'cool' as is, then leave it to someone who can.

[rushingwind.livejournal.com]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said here. :) I myself have been guilty of a few of these in the past, but I'm mellowing out now.

[tielan]

Yeah, same here.

I think some people learn from fandom experience. Others just seem to rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

[rushingwind.livejournal.com]

You know, I've been seeing a lot of that 'entitlement' in a lot of Shep/Weir forums and groups that I check out in sometimes. Maybe it's always been there and I haven't noticed it (or either it's that argument I had with a girl yesterday who said something like 'HOW CAN U BE A MULTISHIPPER JOHN/TEYLA SUX AND JOHN/LIZ IS THE LOVE 4EVER AND U GIVE US SPARKY SHIPPERS A BAD NAME CAUSE SHEYLA SUX')

I feel like shouting 'Hello! I'm on your side! I like your ship!' to some of these people. Except, I guess that I'm really not on their side, because an attitude like that girl had really irks me. When I heard Elizabeth was getting demoted to recurring status, I flipped out and made an emotional post at about 1am in the morning. Then two hours later I deleted it in morbid embarrassment. That was about all of the drama from me. I did not drag it out weeks and weeks, and bitch daily about it, and write 400 letters that will never be read to TPTB.

I'm a mulishipper--it's in my blood, I guess. :) A vast majority of people don't seem to mind this, but the few that do are the ones that make it so bad that it's almost not worth messing with. Yes, I ship John/Elizabeth and John/Teyla. Just because I ship John/Teyla does not make me a disgrace to all John/Elizabeth shippers. There are a few who apparently feel this way, and the only thing I can think of is their sense of 'entitlement', or as you were saying, that 'we have the most numbers and therefore our ship rules!'

It makes me sad, really, because I don't get the same enjoyment out of it as I used to, and good lord, I want to scream, "I like your ship too so please stop yelling at me!"

Sorry to go off topic here. I just kinda needed to vent suddenly...heh.

And off topic again, I commented somewhere on your journal about getting your Christmas card back in the mail (cause I...err...messed up the address... *hides from tielan's wrath* ). Anyway, I'd like to write fic for you to make up for it. What would you like (stargate-related)? Maybe some John/Teyla smut?The only thing I won't write is Ronon/Teyla.

[thelana.livejournal.com]

*raises hand*

I know the feeling. I've been a multishipper in a bunch of fandoms. I do it because I love it and I usually get along well with people. But sometimes you get the feeling that all the fangroups are eying you as a potential traitor. And exactly, hey, stop doing that, I *like* your ship, I'm on your side; I wanna meta with you and read your fic and discuss just like everybody else.

[rushingwind.livejournal.com]

Exactly! I say, "Hey, wait, I like your ship too! Why are you yelling at me...?"

It is a bit funny, though, cause people say that the Stargate fandom is bad with the shipping wank, but trust me, it is tame compared to other fandoms I've been into *cough*Final Fantasy 7*cough*

*shivers at the bad memories*

[tielan]

John/Teyla of any kind. Friendship, relationship, fuck-buddies...the whole gamut. Or one aspect of it. :)

Would love.

Thanks! :)

[miera-c.livejournal.com]

I can't remember, are you a Farscape fan? I'm only just starting to watch S1 but a friend of mine insists that Farscape is a post-colonial (ie not the Stargate Go America version) scifi show.

[tielan]

No. I've had friends who tried to get me into it, and I resisted because I Feared the plotbunnies. Seen two eps, and not much else.

And, because when I started watching SG1, Farscape was still being shown on SciFi and it sounded weird...

[rydra_wong]

I would totally second that - the show takes most of s1 to really hit its stride, but after that it really becomes pretty obvious, especially in s4.

When I wandered over to Stargate, I did find the difference in that respect very jarring, and I think it's one of the (many) reasons why I've ended up writing Teal'c so much.

[devinem27.livejournal.com]

A cricket bat upside the chin? ROTFLMAO True, we're all a bit guilty.

[tielan]

Sorry. Australianism. :)

[mirageofmae.livejournal.com]

I find myself agreeing (vehemently) with all of your opinions. In particular the last one in the face of recent changes upcoming in Season 4. I'm always a little bit squicked when I see people acting appalled that their views are not directly replicated in the show, and anything diverting from their hopes or dreams is strictly abhorrent. It just seems arrogant and childish.

Another one I really liked seeing here:

The Stargate Universes are basically a galactic conceptualisation of America's Power In The World. The only peoples who really matter are Americans Earth. The only peoples who've ever truly saved the day or sacrificed for someone else are Americans Earthlings. The only enemies worth fighting are those who have a personal vendetta against Americans Earthlings. The only people who've ever had a brilliant idea in the history of all civilisation through all galaxies are Americans Earthlings. And the only people fighting for democracy freedom for all peoples are Americans Earthlings!</>

So. True.

Maybe your opinions aren't universal, but I have to say, they make a lot of sense. I think the problem with most people is that they fail to realize a certain level of introspection (never bother to think about why we like certain 'ships, or where zealous opters come from, etc) If you think of science fiction (or whatever genre) and by extension the fandom that goes with it, it's a reflection/metaphor/mini universe for life... and in the end, your opinions make sense and at the same time answers why they're unpopular.

Anyway, after that long winded explanation, I'm just saying that I agree with you.

[tielan]

Thanks. :)

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

The Stargate Universes are basically a galactic conceptualisation of America's Power In The World.

I wonder what the Canadians writing the show think of that ;)

[tielan]

"No more American Television for us!"

[2bluaeryn.livejournal.com]

* Claps* I totall agree. I voiced some of the same things in my LJ recently. I especially agree w/your statement:

We, the fans, don't 'deserve' anything. We don't. Really. Not from TPTB, not from the actors, not from our fellow fans. There are things we'd like, sure, but it is not our God-given right to have them. Anyone who thinks it is needs a good smack and a lesson in 'you are not the center of the universe', because they clearly didn't learn it at age five.

You know, some of them may still be five...hummmm

[tielan]

Some of them certainly behave like they're five.

"I can't believe TPTB would do anything like this to us! A character dying or an actor leaving the show is an affront to my view of this universe!"

Except, you know a five year old would whine, "It's not fair! I don't want anything to change!"

[2bluaeryn.livejournal.com]

Exactly...that's why it just best to ignore them. The more you pay attention, the more they tend to act up otherwise they have gotten the attention they were aiming for.

We nee to just do our thing...loving JT and having fun w/them and the rest is just...the rest - LOL.

JMO.

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

You are nothing but a big 'ol meanie.

And I love you for that.

[tielan]

I do my best. :)

[infinimato.livejournal.com]

YES!!!

& there's mary-sue to McKay as well. He's so intelligent he can do almost anything. He ocassionaly screws up, but never minor niggles, it's KABOOM. He's got the tempermant of a 4 year old yet there are still women who want him and people who continue to work under him instead of saing, "This guy is an abusive putz, now that I can go back to Earth, I will!" He can shoot firearms and often hit his target. mckay is the "ugly duckling mary-sue."

also, to the last one -- fans who think they "deserve" something from the actors are the ones who scare me the most. I mean in that "please seek therapy now because you should be locked up" kind of scared.

[tielan]

Yeah, there's Mary Sue aspects to McKay, too.

I still find it ironic that no-one's fallen over either Teyla or Ronon while they're off-world. Even just for the pretty muscles...ROWR.

[majortrip.livejournal.com]

Here, here!

I agree on every point, especially the shipping ones. I'm a little creeped out by the "We're number one!" chants I've seen recently.

But the idea that 'fans' should have a say in a show is creepy, too. I can see TPTB giving little treats to fandom once in a while, but I don't think fandom is where I'd go looking for major ideas. Too many extremes. When we first start watching a show, it's because there's something there that we identify with or that intrigues us. We start following a show because we like where they're taking us. I don't think we 'demand' anything at the start.

The feeling of entitlement comes later, but really, if something's not going your way, why not simply move on to something you like better? I've seen some people say it's painful to watch something fall apart, in his/her opinion, but really, why torture youself?

I suppose I'm naive since the SG fandom is reallythe only one I keep up with.

[tielan]

I've seen some people say it's painful to watch something fall apart, in his/her opinion, but really, why torture youself?

I think it's not so much to do with 'torturing yourself' as people wanting to 'be right' about their character or pairing.

The need to be right - to be 'vindicated' in their choice of character/pairing - is a very powerful motivator for people to cling to fandoms. It's always a matter of hope: they hope that maybe things will get better and aren't quite willing to give up.

I've done it myself. I still do it with Atlantis - it will never be the show I want it to be. Yet I hope for more from it, and am disappointed when I don't get more...

I think, however, I can live with the kind of show it is. Although I'll definitely be grumbling about it from time to time!

[kjog.livejournal.com]

--The Stargate Universes are basically a galactic conceptualisation of America's Power In The World. The only peoples who really matter are Americans Earth. The only peoples who've ever truly saved the day or sacrificed for someone else are Americans Earthlings. The only enemies worth fighting are those who have a personal vendetta against Americans Earthlings. The only people who've ever had a brilliant idea in the history of all civilisation through all galaxies are Americans Earthlings. And the only people fighting for democracy freedom for all peoples are Americans Earthlings!--

Hear, hear! As a citizen of the disreputable, abominable, and mostly-illiterate 'Amerikuh' (one nation that's stolen the name of 32 different countries), I wholly agree with you. I'm fine holding it against US politicians and their sidekicks, but I haven't quite applied the same anger to the show... yet.

[(Anonymous)]

Your comments are a breath of fresh air. I was beginning to think that all this screeching about fan entitlement was shared by most and it seriously freaked me out. What is up with all this childish behaviour and throwing their toys out of the pram. Your comments have made me understand it a bit better even if I completely disagree with that kind of thinking.

If a show gives you what you want then great, if not and its that painful then just move on - thats life - sometimes we get what we want and sometimes we dont - but we are not entitled to anything. The shipping frenzy seems to bring out the worst in some people and their emotional involvement in a fictional character can become a bit obsessional.

I've never shipped for anyone before, but John and Teyla just pulled me in. They seem to fit and I love all their interaction - whether friendship or something more. I can't really give any other deep and meaningful reason why I love these two other than they seem to compliment each other in every way. I'm happy to enjoy anything I get between them and anything more like (hot sexy moments) I will turn to fan fic.

[tielan]

As I said, one of the problems with shipping is over-identification of characters, and the inability to differentiate between canon and fanon.

Interestingly, slashers traditionally have better 'coping mechanisms' to differentiate between canon and fanon than shippers have, but even some of them seem to lose the line between what's in the show and the varying ways it can be interpreted.

Guilty

[cold-queen-5.livejournal.com]

Of at least two of these opinions...but I'll never say which!

[maxbo.livejournal.com]

2 words ---- You Rock

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

So far the Stargate Fandom has made me cross-eyed. I have never ever dealt with such utter stupidity in my life. Now the closest I've gone was yelling at Hudlin for his disparaging characterization of Storm in the BP books (which are failing, praise the lord---BP books were failing before the Storm arc; the Storm arc was just the last straw!). Beyond that nothing has gotten this bad!!

These people hear one thing, and create this fantastical story to support and this is going as fact. I'm in shock by the random thoughts, the lack of insight, and over all the bloody insult to TPTB and how they work out he details. This is not to say I'm in love with the changes, but I respect that changes need to be made adn further more, it will not change my opinion of the show nor will I not give S4 or any future season a chance.

But the twits and the comments, and the lemming network; at this point people are bloody certifiable.

[tielan]

nor will I not give S4 or any future season a chance.

Which, really, is all that should be done in the end - give the show a chance.

Not watching the show might create a vengeful satisfaction in fans if/when the series doesn't renew at the end of S4, but if it's shooting TPTB in the foot, then it's also shooting the actors that the fans love in the foot.

[bellalarina.livejournal.com]

The Stargate Universes are basically a galactic conceptualisation of America's Power In The World.

Stargate is made with the help of the US Airforce.
If the USAF don't like what they see they withdraw their support. It's the same with other films/TV shows. If you want helicopters/ships/anything large scale military in you film/show the easiest place to get them is the military. Look how sympathetic the Bond films are to US/UK military.

I think that's what bugged me about SGA at the beginning. They had a civilian experdition with civilian leader and I (naively) believed that that would bring a whole new perspective. (I wasn't that keen on SG1 because of it's 'US military is always right' way of thinking.) I now wonder why they went that way if they weren't going to do something different. I think a lot of the early problems (namely the civilian negotiator constantly being portrayed as 'wrong') would have been solved if they had just said 'It's a US military expedition to a lost city with a few civilian experts.'

Amen to quite a few of the others. That silent majority always gets forgotten about.

But I sort of disagree with the fans don't deserve anything one. I DON'T think fans deserve anything as far as making the show goes but a 'thanks for your support' and not getting insulted by the show makers is a common courtesy.

[tielan]

I DON'T think fans deserve anything as far as making the show goes but a 'thanks for your support' and not getting insulted by the show makers is a common courtesy.

Yes, I think Joe Mallozzi's actions have been unwise and inflammatory towards the fandom. There's a lot of bitterness stored up towards him from his actions this time and previous times.

On the other hand, having seen how much crap gets hung on the man and his compatriots, I don't know that I can say I wouldn't have lashed out against my detractors the way he has at his. Unwise, perhaps, but understandable, too.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

The Stargate Universes are basically a galactic conceptualisation of America's Power In The World.

Yes. Hell, yes. When people complain about the politics of Stargate, I bring up this comparison because it's so true.

[doxymom.livejournal.com]

<

[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<the [...] america's>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

<<The Stargate Universes are basically a galactic conceptualisation of America's Power In The World.>>

This is one of the things that bugs me about the show. It's puzzling to me that this attitude seems so popular in TV and some movies--like Independance Day--when I've never personally met anyone who feels that way. I'm in the US, btw.

About Mary-sues, isn't Carter also a bit of a Mary-sue? Beautiful, super intelligent, always saves the day and makes Rodney look a bit dumb (my opinion) when she's around him.

So if John, Rodney and Carter are all Mary-sues:

It begs the question, how many Mary-sues does it take to change a light bulb?

Or, what do three MS do when alone in a room together?

Basically, I agree with what you've said.

Fan entitlement and ship wars just annoy me. Fandom is supposed to be a hobby. It's supposed to be fun. It's not worth fighting over.

I've noticed the same sense of entitlement in readers of fic too. I used to write fanfic novels and stopped posting them as wips because readers would not only tell me what they wanted me to write, they'd get pissed at me if I followed my muse and wrote it differently.

Anyway, great post.

[agriope23.livejournal.com]

Hey! I’ve been absent from fandom for a while but your post was just the thing to reel me back in.

I completely agree with you. I’ll blame it on youth, but when I was sixteen I bitterly dumped Roswell because my pairing didn’t “come true”. And don’t even get me started on the whole Buffy-debacle! I felt cheated! Like the writers just didn’t get it, didn’t see. I sounded like a lot of people at GW.

The revelation was X-Files. Mulder left, I didn’t want him to but what the writers offered instead, the direction they chose wasn’t what I would have done but it took me great places and really entertained me, which is what it’s all about.

I’m new in SGA fandom but I’ve definitely seen enough to say that a lot of people need to learn to distinguish between the show and fandom.

Personally, I enjoy them differently. Fandom is the place to live out all my J/T fantasies, to play with the elements in the show. Here and in my own stories John and Teyla are as I’d like them to be and truthfully, I don’t think my J/T bug would have survived long if it hadn’t be for the better fanfic.

The show is an entirely different pleasure. Sometimes I can rage at what those writers will think of and sometimes it’s great. But its first attraction is that it’s out of my control, it’s a journey. For 45 minutes I let TPTB take me wherever they’ll think of. I can imagine John Sheppard, but only they can say who he is and what he’ll do.

There’s a reason we put disclaimers on our stories: SGA is the property of Sony-MGM Studios and its creators. And no amount of bitching, whining, badmouthing or even praying is gonna change reality.

[tielan]

I can imagine John Sheppard, but only they can say who he is and what he’ll do.

BING! BING! BING!

We'd like to congratulate you for having won a shiny new Internets! How would you like that packaged?

(Which is basically a fancy way of saying that's one of the best descriptions of the difference between fanon and canon that I've ever read.)

[agriope23.livejournal.com]

*takes elaborate bow* It came to me while watching First Strike. The urge to reach past John and slap whoever wrote him so.... jerkish towards Elizabeth. They're not two peas in a pod, but they respect each other. I didn't see a lot of it from him.

We'd seen it before but his GI Joe streak has never been so infuriating. For anyone else in the world it was a bad American stereotype come to life: hit first, then we'll see. The distinction was clear: the army with guns drawn and the civilians in disagreement, but unable to stop the machine. I wonder if the writers meant to be so obvious about it.

I'll probably have to write a fic to redeem him!

[missyvortexdv.livejournal.com]

I agree on all of them (though strangely I'd never really thought about Shep as TPTB's Mary Sue even though he has a sort of James Bond way about him)

What especially frustrates me is when fans forget that one about just how many viewers there are, and how ultimately viewers would have the power if there was any to be had over TPTB, except not being fannishly inclined means they don't go on mad letter writing campaigns etc unlike fans. Not that all fan campaigns are bad, just that they often end up perpetuating the sense of fannish entitlement from people who expect they will get what they want out of it. In fandom you can hope, but it's all you can do.

Fans tend to pick their favourite ship by selecting the character they most resemble, resonate with, or idealise. I can definitely recognise that one in myself. I tend to want to see ships with geeks getting the girl and I certain it's because I like geeks myself and secondly I feel geeking and obviously with the lack of geey female character in most shows then I'm gonna be dually identifying with the geeky guy as muchas with my favourite female characters.

Personally, as unpopular as these opinions may be, they're entirely sensible ones. But then sanity being found in fandom can be quite rare. ;D