musings on the pairing thing in SGA

[tielan]

One of these days, I'm going to have to write something Liz/Ronon that isn't crackfic. Because I really like this pairing (even if they're not going to do anything with it in the show).

My dream scene right now is to see Liz sleepily taking a call from the control room one morning, before the camera pans back and we discover Ronon in bed with her. If that ever happened, I'd call up one of the writers and squeal in his ear. Which is almost certainly why they never will. Can you think of the meow-boom? Dudes. Chimera (or, hell, Divide and Conquer) in SG-1 would compare to it like a car-bomb on the West Bank to the A-bomb in Hiroshima.

Brr. Fangirls. *g* Guess I'll just have to become adept at working non-canon pairings, eh?

Absently *prods* all the people who followed me over from SG-1 fandom: are you guys actually reading this LJ? Or has my foray into weird and wacky pairings instead of your OTP dissuaded you from reading anything here?

It's my observation that het-fen tend to stick with an OTP religiously. (I can say this because I was a het OTP fan once-upon-a-time - still am when it comes to that specific pairing) There's no crossover, no alternate pairings, no open options - they read exclusively: it's X/Y and if it's not that then they're not going to touch it with a ten-foot pole. The only reason they'd respond to a Y/Z pairing is if it's subtly X/Y at the same time.

This primarily comes from my experience in SGA: gen, slash, and femslashers appear considerably more open to a multitude of pairings. I hate to say it, because most of the people I consider my friends in the fandom are still het OTPers - which is also why I'm curious if any of them are actually reading this LJ. The broad readers in SGA aren't really the people who I think of as shipping the het pairings. Tell you true, I'm somewhat tickled to discover that most of the people who've friended this LJ are slash-oriented folks.

Incidentally, not all het OTPers are teenybopper girls. Some of the friends I mentioned are thirty, forty, fiftysomethings - not all of them are female, either.

And if they ever do land Liz with Ronon, remind me that I have to call someone up and squeal in his ear. should be fun. *g*

Comments

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

That's sort of a weird observation, especially in this fandom. It used to be a three ship fandom and now it's sort of exploded with variety. All on the het. If you're someone writing homoerotica and you want to get read? Your best bet is still to write McKay/Sheppard. McKay/Sheppard is how slash fans sell other slash fans on SGA (without even showing them the episodes or telling them about SG1, sadly enough). So I suppose to see someone say the het people are mad OTPers seems a little odd to me. *g*

Incidentally, I'd really enjoy seeing Ronon/Elizabeth. I just can't read your fic because I only made it about 50 pages into the first Anne Bishop novel and I absolutely detested every single overblown word of it. So even though I'm certain your fic is great (all the rest of them have been!), I can't force myself to read To Serve a Queen because the entire premise is sour for me.

[sjhw-tolerance.livejournal.com]

Hmm...well, you know I read this. I'm rather open in SGA, though I tend to view myself as more of a noromo; none of the potential pairings really seem valid to me, except perhaps John/Teyla. I like the wildness of Liz/Ronan, mostly because I think there's a wild side to the carefully controlled Elizabeth that Ronan could tap into. Ronan is even more of Alpha!male than John could ever be to Elizabeth.

[tielan]

Well, I was never that involved in the slash side of things in any fandom, so I can't say anything about the slash OTPs - this is just my observation from the het side of the fandom. :)

It's kinda funny. Right now, I rather like all the het relationship possibilities except the most popular one and what's becoming the second most-popular one: Shep/Weir and Teyla/Ronon. The first is just too squee for me (and I don't like how they're doing it) and the second has sibling vibes that ick me out.

Interestingly, I could almost see Shep/Ronon if I was inclined to slash, more for the 'alpha-alpha' thing and the warrior understanding between both. (It works for Shep/Teyla and worked for Teyla/Ronon until one scene just made me go "zomg! big sister/little brother EW!") But I just can't see Shep as gay - it doesn't work for me.

And Shep/McKay? Way out in my left-field for all that they have great interactions. The argument-conflict-best-friends dynamic doesn't do it for me.

I'm sorry you won't read TSaQ, but I'm definitely trying to find other Ronon/Liz scenarios - and the time to write them!

That was a really long answer, wasn't it?

[tielan]

I like the wildness of Liz/Ronan, mostly because I think there's a wild side to the carefully controlled Elizabeth that Ronan could tap into.

Exactly!

And my favourite scene between John and Ronon was the one in 'Conversion' where John outlasts Ronon and they have this great, funny moment of banter where you see the competition between them.

[terrie01.livejournal.com]

Well, for what it's worth, there are some serious OTP slashers in SGA. The McKay/Sheppard types are die-hards. Since I write a lot of M/S friendship fic, I get a lot of "But.... But.... Where's the SEX?" *rolls eyes*

[tielan]

LOL. I may have to read some of your stuff. I want to write some John/Teyla friendship fic. Never mind that most of the J/T folks are 'sex or nothing' types - there's just a much much smaller subset of them than the McK/Shep fen. (I can't see M/S without thinking 'Mulder/Scully' from the XF!)

[terrie01.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with the problem with Teyla/Ronon (sis/bro). I just don't see it. And I do agree that Shep/Ronon works. Just look at Instinct.

[terrie01.livejournal.com]

*laugh* I didn't even think of that -- never really got involved with X-files fandom. I don't mind sex -- some of my favorite story of full of it. But I also like a good friendship piece. The world can always use more gen.

[tielan]

I know that at least one part of the popularity of Teyla/Ronon is that it solves the problem of 'what shall we do with Teyla' that emerges for anyone trying to pair Sheppard up.

Both the McKay/Shep fen and the Shep/Weir fen are quite eagerly pimping it as a secondary ship (sorta the way some Sam/Jack fen turned had Dan/Jan as a way to eliminate Daniel - or the Jack/Daniel fen wrote Sam/Teal'c to get Sam out of the way).

And while it could be said that Ronon/Liz is 'convenience shipping' for me (my original OTP was Shep/Teyla), I think that's become something of a moot point when they're TAKING OVER MY BRAIN!

[tielan]

I only ever did by fanfic recs. About a year after the show finished, I started trawling through the fanfic. The good, the bad, and the OMGWTFBBQ ugly.

[aaricia.livejournal.com]

It's my observation that het-fen tend to stick with an OTP religiously.
I'd say it's a 50/50 thing with me. Take SGA - in my mind Shep and Teyla are totally exclusive to each other, while I can see Liz with pretty much anyone (except John and/or Teyla, what with them being exclusive and all).
And, sadly, I can't get into any slash pairings in SGA - I've tried, it just ain't happening.

[(Anonymous)]

I have NO idea what you guys are talking about, it is like you are talking in codes!!! I only can say that I liked Ronon and Liz from the start (I have a lot of imagination), and got to this LJ by chance, surfing the net, looking for stories and I am grateful for that...Story for Ronan/weir ... well they could get stuck for some reason on some planet .... or while visiting a planet, the king's daugther wants Ronan to be her husband and Elizabeth, not Teyla for some reason, has to pretend to be his wife ...I cannot write but I have ideas, stupid ones maybe ...Thanks for your stories, I enjoy them! Nat

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

I think it also depends on how you were introduced to fandom. I was shippy, but reminded regularly that my friends saw different ships (if any at all), and we could all be right.

[pixiesio.livejournal.com]

I read this journal, but I admit I've not been reading your crack!fic. I'm sure it's good ('cause I know you're damn good :), but I just don't have the squee on that particular pairing. *shrug* They're kinda amusing on the show, and there's a bitty bit of potential, and I wouldn't meow-boom if they did more with it on the show, but I'm finding more and more these days I'm going off choosing an OTP and sticking to that one and that one alone. I'd much rather just enjoy the show for what it is than be all "omgwtfhowcanyousaythey'renotmfeo!!!111???" ;) Seeing potential pairings is just the icing on the cake, which, really, was always the way I went into watching ANY show. Fandom just fraks with all of that, hence the staying waaaaaaaaaaaaaay outta it these days. ;)

Okay, I've babbled enough methinks. <g>

[snoggingpicard.livejournal.com]

It's like you are reading my mind! Holy crap. I see Sheppard and Teyla as my primary ship for Atlantis, and I feel that they have the most going for them as far as a pure, lovely relationship goes. It could actually work out if the writers choose to pursue it. I LOVE your fics for this pairing, since I find the same problem with a lot of Shep/Teyla fanfics as you -- not enough of the nice, UST, flirting, pre-relationship stuff and too much "married with kids" or explicit fics. Not my cup of tea. You write these two sooooo well that it scares me sometimes. I love this ship, and to see it put into words as lovely as yours is just wonderful. I always look forward to your fics for this pairing -- please write more! And even with all of the talk about developing a Shep/Weir relationship this season, I still see little indications of Shep/Teyla in nearly every episode. It is there, and their connection in season one especially cannot be explained away. I LOVE these two together, and are kind of an exclusive ship for me.

The Teyla/Ronon thing is completely brother and sister to me as well at this point. It wouldn't exactly bother me that much, but I have gotten absolutely nothing from their interaction besides just friendly banter, and the events of "Trinity" are not exactly conduicive to building a lasting romantic relationship. Plus, maybe it's just me, but Ronon doesn't seem the type to "settle down" with someone, even someone he cares about a lot, while Teyla strikes me as a person who would take relationships very, very seriously. I don't find them compatible in this way at all.

And of course, Shep/Weir. I don't see this at all. It's so dang popular that I conciously make an effort to find evidence of this ship in every episode, and I can't get past the personal "ewww" factor for me. They seem to relate to each other on a purely professional level, and I almost get a mom/teenage son vibe from them at times, which is just wrong. I honestly can't see this thing happening and being a mutual interest. This ship makes me so frustrated, and it actually is scaring me a little because of the overwhelming popularity that it has with the audience. If I saw it at ALL in the show, I wouldn't be so resistant against it happening, but I think I'd be very disappointed if it pans out, especially with the way they seem to be developing it now. I don't want Weir's character sacrificed for the sake of ship, and her constantly worrying over Shep is one way to do it very quickly. It's not a good way to build a ship but it's a sure-fire way to kill a strong female lead. Yeesh.

Um, but yeah, Ronon/Weir? I think it's safe to say that you are well on the way to converting me! These two have a very interesting dynamic -- love their scenes in "Aurora" and "Duet" especially -- and they are quite cute together. I'm hoping that this works out along with Shep/Teyla...it's rapidly becoming my secondary ship!

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

Well, I really feel like there aren't slash OTPs. Plural. There's A slash OTP, so that's part of the reason it's so funny to see someone describing the het side as, well, variety-less. *g* Not being an OTP'er myself, I suppose I see a lot of variety that some of the more tunnel vision inclined in the fandom don't.

I can see Sheppard as bi-dominantly-hetero, actually. But a lot of that has to do with the 'oooh, shiny!' aspects of his personality more than the so called "queering" of his character. I am curious, though, where you get the brother-sister vibes from? I don't see that at all.

[jenna-corinth.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't worry yourself. For all their blather, there's no way the writers are ever going to canonically pair anyone with anyone on this show - the fallout would just be too huge.

They enjoy playing the field too much, be it with McKay/Sheppard, Teyla/Ronon, Shep/Weir or my most hated pairing ever - Shep/Teyla. Choosing one definitively means they would lose that. It's also not LoveGate and I think they've finally cottoned on after the Sam/Jack debacle that subtext is definitely the way to go.

Pair whoever you want with whoever you want and everyone's happy.

[jalara.livejournal.com]

*waves* Checking in to say "Yes, I read this journal." I haven't yet read the Liz/Ronon because I like to wait until a story is finished before I dive in. I am looking forward to doing just that when the last part is posted.

As far as being a het fan that stays with one OTP, I guess I may be odd. I'd say that my OTP is Sam/Jack BUT I've read lots of fics where Sam was with someone else - and if the fic is well-written, I love seeing Sam paired with all kinds of other people. In fact, some of my favorite fics have Sam with someone else. Maybe I should say I'm a Carter fan with a strong leaning toward S/J.

The same was true with ST:Voyager. Janeway/Chakotay was my OTP, but I loved lots of fics where Janeway was with someone else. In fact, the stranger the pairing, the more I like some fics. Maybe it's because it takes a really good writer to make an odd pairing believable and good writers turn out good fic.

I think I tend to look for a female hero. There are so few females in pop culture who are true heroes that when I find one, I don't care who they are with, I just want more of them.

One reason (not the only one, mind you) that I like your journal is you write female heroes. Teyla and Liz are both underutilized in SGA, as you've mentioned on more than one occasion. You write them as fully formed characters, as heroes. I haven't yet fully embraced and emersed myself in SGA. I think it has to do with the fact that I do not think that Teyla or Liz are portrayed as the heroes they should be. They haven't grabbed me the way Kathryn Janeway or Sam Carter did. I'm hoping one of them will, but until then, I probably won't seek out SGA fic or any specific pairing fic for SGA.

I am open to any pairing at this time. Liz/Ronon is intriging as are Shep/Teyla, Shep/Liz, Liz/Caldwell, and Teyla/Ronon. I even like Liz/Teyla, but I don't get Shep/McKay at all.

Unfortunately, for me, it seems that most of SGA fandom revolves around Shep/McKay. McKay still annoys me to no end, although I'll admit he has redeeming qualities. But I don't want to read fic about him. I see enough of him on the show.

I've recently had the pleasure of meeting some die-hard slash fans in RL. They love Shep/McKay. I've tried to get it, but I don't. I'm just not looking for fics that explore the feelings between two men like they do. I still want my female hero. So, we've just agreed we want different things out of the show and its fic. We are ok with that. I've found the whole thing quite interesting, though. I'm beginning to think that different types of fen actually see different shows, because their individual filters are so different. Each one of us sees what we want to see - and I think that's fine. We are all entertained differently and I find it cool that one show can appeal to different types of fen.

However, I'm getting off the subject. I'm glad you are writing the female hero stories for SGA. They will probably make me like the show more.

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

It used to be a three ship fandom and now it's sort of exploded with variety.

What three ships? I mean, I see a lot of Sheppard/Weir and also a lot of Sheppard/Teyla, but what was the third ship pre-Ronon? I've noticed a good deal of McKay/Weir matched up with Sheppard/Teyla, is that what you mean?

The slash side of the force is definitely tilted toward McShep, but there are more alternative/additional pairings than you find in a really OTP-based fandom (example: Smallville). There's quite a bit of McKay/Beckett, for instance, and also McKay/Zelenka and (now) Sheppard/Dex, with a pornucopia of other pairings & threesomes as well.

I suspect that McShep may actually be the most popular pairing overall, because the het side of the force is split between Shep/Weir and Shep/Teyla. And frankly, I predict that sooner or later some canon development will link Shep up with either Elizabeth or Teyla, and het SGA fandom will part like the Red Sea only with more yelling.

[bugly42.livejournal.com]

Hrm, the great ship question. I've got to say that I give them all a chance, though I tend to stay on the het side of things due to the fact that slash and femslash tend to degrade into being more about the (usually) poorly-written sex than the plot. Though my Liz pairing is either McKay or Sheppard, that's more because they have that sense of a harmony between two people that makes me not care whether they're friends or more than friends.

Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic, but sometimes the worst thing you can do for a relationship is go beyond the little displays of caring like hand-holding, food-mooching, etc. into graphic, sweaty, messy bedroom antics(or wherever the twisted mind in question places things). I can't read or write sex without remembering a married mother of 5, with the youngest in months, making a comment of "The last time I saw a throbbing member, my husband had hit his thumb with a hammer."

Now, I'm also primarily a crossover person, which means pure shippyness for me is very odd. I may like certain leanings when I watch the shows, but some of my favorites are totally off the wall. You try explaining Willow/Snape to someone who doesn't understand the crankypants appeal.

[mice1900.livejournal.com]

I dropped by for the meta. I write slash almost exclusively these days, though I've written some gen and het here and there (under another name in another fandom). The thing is that I write bifictionally -- meaning that most of my characters are conceived as bisexual and that sometimes hetsex happens in an otherwise slash story.

My primary interest is Beckett/McKay, and I've written a hella lot of it, but I also write other slash pairings (and moresomes) in my stories as well. My last story, a Zelenka/other story, also had hints of Teyla/Lorne that just came out of nowhere and my readers really seemed interested in seeing that develop. Considering that most of them are slashfen, that surprised me a bit, but I was also pleased with it.

Personally, I could really see Shep/Ronon, but in my ongoing series Shep's straight (at least he thinks he is so far) but he's probably going to end up with a straighboy!THING for Ronon, because damn, how else can you interpret some of those LOOKS he gives the guy?

Anyway, I do think the fandom is dominated by McKay/Sheppard. Shep doesn't do much for me, but I write him into the stories more as background -- because I do a lot of missing scene/between stories fics. We *see* all the Shep interaction on screen. I like to think about what's going on with the less up-front characters. Writing McKay/Beckett in this environment is... interesting at times. There are very few spaces where it's actually safe to discuss McKay/Beckett without people turning around and going "but.. but.. MCSHEP." Seriously. I've seen people head for the fringes of SGA fandom because of the huge McKay/Sheppard influence.

Me, I'm gonna keep writing McKay/Beckett and my other stuff around the fringes until the cows come home because how can I not love Carson? Really?

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

When I said 'three ships' I was generalizing to both het and slash. So Sheppard/Teyla, Sheppard/Weir and Sheppard/McKay. It's like how SG1 is definitely a two-ship fandom centered around Jack.

Which sort of says something about the ability of scifi shows to draw interactive audiences based on that sort of character archtype.

[tielan]

in my ongoing series Shep's straight (at least he thinks he is so far) but he's probably going to end up with a straighboy!THING for Ronon

See, I think I could get behind that idea. I think. :)

[tielan]

I think it's more the question of the archetype and how it appeals to the audience, not so much that the sci-fi shows draw audiences based on that archetype, particularly the military/non-military aspect that is found in Jack/Daniel, Shep/McKay, and Shep/Weir.

[mice1900.livejournal.com]

And Rodney? Would tease him mercilessly for *years*. For real.