Ship Manifesto - Stargate Atlantis: Elizabeth Weir/Ronon Dex

[tielan]

Dayamn. I think this ship manifesto may be longer than some canon ship manifestii! Anyway, my ship manifesto for Liz/Ronon.

A Brief History of my introduction to the Liz/Ronon pairing

The first time I saw this pairing suggested was when a friend requested a Ronon/Weir drabble.

I looked at the request, figured that she'd intended to ask for Shep/Weir - it's a much more common pairing, after all. Then I saw who had requested it. Definitely not a Shep/Weir fan.

And I had to write a drabble for it.

So I put it off. And off. And off. Until I couldn't put it off any longer and went looking for anything that might provide me with even the vaguest hope of WTF? for Liz/Ronon.

I found it in this essay by lierdumoa about the interaction between Liz and Ronon and a possible interpretation of it. The essay made the pairing work for me...and the foot was in the door.

It sorta went downhill from there.

--

But What About Canon?
[may contain traces of spoilers]

Canonically, there's not much interaction between the two of them.

When Ronon is first being considered for Shep's team in Duet, Liz comes to see him and tries to talk to him about staying in Atlantis. As conversations go, this is probably one of the most stilted and uncomfortable ones you've ever heard. She's all bright and perky, he's all terse and uncommunicative. It's 'WTF do I do with him/her?' at its level best.

lierdumoa addressed this in her essay. I'm not going to repeat her so I suggest you go read it.

The next interaction of significance is at the start of the episode 'Aurora' where Liz and Ronon have a conversation about chess, the mindset of the people in Atlantis, and where Liz gets entirely the wrong end of the stick and acts like an adolescent while trying to save face. Flustered!Liz is too damn cute, and Ronon has this 'oooookay' look on his face. Glee, peoples. Total glee.

Then there's the way she says his name in Critical Mass. [insert WTF exclamation here: she's getting hyped up about a name?!] But my hand to God, I went *SQUEE!* when she said his name. When talking to Shep she was all business, but when addressing Ronon, she was leaning.

And in The Long Goodbye Ronon tells Teyla he'll go after Shep, "Because I know how he [Shep] thinks. I haven't the faintest idea how she [Elizabeth] thinks." It's so battle of the sexes with the confounded male trying to make sense of his girlfriend - and I loved it. It put a big silly grin on my face.

In Coup d'Etat, having discovered that several members of the outgoing team of Atlanteans have 'wanted' posters up about them, Ronon wants to know why he and Teyla don't have the 'wanted' posters. Liz teases him about feeling left out, Ronon replies that he wants to give them a chance to change their mind about just how dangerous he is. There's a lovely arch humour between them at that moment.

--

Yin and Yang

She's the civilian leader of Atlantis, a negotiator, and apparently a pacifist. He's military, prefers actions over words, and has no problems handling guns, shooting people, or stringing them up like sides of beef. While it's a case of opposites, I see them as different enough to intrigue each other to the point of interest. Ronon's comment from TLG only confirms this - the idea that she confounds him. Judging by Liz's overreaction to him in the opening scene of Aurora, he confounds her.

I see Liz as being very moderately contained. She's polite and nice and sugar and spice, and all the things that good women should be. Lovely velvet gloves...with polished steel beneath. The pleasantry conceals a woman who is far tougher than she presently knows. I think we might be seeing the steel come out in late S2, early S3. Or maybe the gloves are just wearing thin.

The interesting thing about Ronon is that he seems simple enough; press the buttons, get the reactions. And while he was on the run, simple was probably the easiest way to go. In some things, that's not going to change. He's always going to go for the throat when it comes to action. But in personal matters, love, loyalty, friendship, and family, he's like an onion - he's got layers.

And he outdoes Shep in the Alpha male category, which I personally find hilarious.

I don't know that I can exactly express how they'd interact. Liz would probably be the idealist, while Ronon would be the pragmatist. He'd tug her back down to ground, and she'd force him to look at the possibilities beyond what he's used to. Eh. I wrote them. See Chapters 2-5 of 'Wrong Kind Of Guy' for how I see their interaction playing out.

And the sex would be hot.

I'm just sayin'...

--

Fanon, Fanfic, and All That Jazz

I gather that, for most people, any interest in Liz/Ronon is highly secondary, coming way after whatever primary pairing they love. Which I can understand. It's not exactly a pairing with a high interaction quotient like Shep/Weir or Shep/McKay, or one with the support of the writers and actors, like Shep/Teyla.

However, if you haven't already guessed, I love them.

If Liz/Ronon isn't my primary pairing, it's in very close second place. And there just ain't enough fic for it.

Other than my own stories, I've seen a handful of Liz/Ronon stories. A few that I liked and one that I thought was an excuse to turn Elizabeth into something resembling a Mary Sue (can do no wrong, is adored by all, cures AIDS with a single touch, and brings light, health, healing, and hope to the galaxy). I like Liz, but the idea of turning her into a saint is abhorrent - I stopped writing Daniel Jackson in SG-1 because of the group that turned him into a saint. I hope to God that the same thing won't happen in SGA.

Two stories that I particularly liked (and remember) are 'Mane' by ladyjax [G] and 'Yield' by sugargroupie [NC-17]. I'm happy to read others if you know of them, but I don't promise to like them!

Incidentally, I know that Torri has said she'd like for Liz and Ronon to have a torrid affair. Not sure about Jason's thoughts on ship (except that he doesn't see Teyla/Ronon at all) but then, not many people have seen the light Liz/Ronon yet, so they wouldn't have asked him about it.

At any rate, I'm all for it!

*sigh* I really do wish that one of you guys would get the bug, though.

ETA: Would anyone join a liz_ronon community if I set one up?

--

Comments

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

*raises hand* I would!! And thanks for the fic links!!

[tielan]

We need more fic links! Really!

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

I would too.

You are so evil.

[tielan]

Oh, and like you're one to talk! *g*

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

I think I am uniquely qualified to talk *g*

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

Of course I would join, if anything to complete my downward slide into hetfic land...

Hee!

[tielan]

I don't really want to create a community that people are just going to ignore, that's all.

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

I don't really want to create a community that people are just going to ignore, that's all.

Not gonna happen!

(I joined, whee!)

[snoggingpicard.livejournal.com]

Ah...Ronon/Weir-ness. Oh, me, me, me! ::bounces on chair:: I want to join! Oh, and I love this little analysis you have going. This pairing is really, really growing for me, and it's probably my second-place ship as well. Yay!

[tielan]

I feel a bit silly trying to quantify it, because I don't really know quite how this pairing got me so damn fast!

[snoggingpicard.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...I can think of a few good fics that did it for me. ;)

[kokopelli-24.livejournal.com]

I would totally join! And I think it would be a great way to get people exposed to the pairing so they can, as you phrased it, "see the light."

[tielan]

Well, it's created. liz_ronon Go join if you're inclined!

[svmadelyn.livejournal.com]

*grins* Awesome timing, because I was just about to make this community but now, hey, I don't have to! I'm going to be linking to the (sadly small) collection of Weir/Ronon fics and meta that I have; is it okay to mention this new community in my post?

[tielan]

Totally okay. The more publicity, the merrier we'll be!

[sugargroupie.livejournal.com]

I'm nodding my head here, because all of this is why I'm drawn to the pairing. I love the possibilities of them hooking up, and I am shallow enough to admit that I'm in it for the hotness and the pretty. I've only written porn, that should speak volumes as to why. ;)

[tielan]

LOL. See, the hot and the pretty is like...icing on the cake for me. 'Cept I don't know what the recipe is!

[skandrae.livejournal.com]

Well, you've hooked me on the pairing, that's for sure. Getting into the writing is a little harder, so I'm easing my way into it. There will be some Liz/Ronon from me, eventually.

[tielan]

Anything I can do to hurry up the process? *g*

[skandrae.livejournal.com]

Aside from making me incredibly wealthy so I can quit the mind-numbing job that steals my creativity away? ^_~

[tielan]

Ah. Sorry. I can't help with that.

[kathgrr.livejournal.com]

I would totally be on board with a liz_ronon community! Love this manifesto =)

[tielan]

It's up. Go for it.

[dirty-diana.livejournal.com]

Incidentally, I know that Torri has said she'd like for Liz and Ronon to have a torrid affair.

I think Torri is a fan of any pairing that involves her getting to make out with cute boys. Bless her heart.

I love how uncomfortable they are around each other. The sex would be *so* hot.

[tielan]

I think Torri is a fan of any pairing that involves her getting to make out with cute boys.

Good point. *G*

[gate-girl.livejournal.com]

Would anyone join a liz_ronon community if I set one up?

YES! YES! YES!!! Oh, and can I rec this manifesto so that everyone who thinks I'm insane for liking Liz/Ronon can have a read?

[tielan]

Sure you can rec it! You never ever have to ask permission to rec anything on this LJ.

And the comm is up: liz_ronon

[gate-girl.livejournal.com]

And I've joined! Stupid question though - how do I post anything to the comm? I've only had LJ for a year and a half ;) I'm thick.

[tielan]

When you opt to make a post (Update), there should be a drop-down box somewhere in the 'Post Options' (or in the main editor of Semagic) from which you can select the journal you're going to post in - it should have your regular user LJ, and then all the communities that that LJ can post to.

[gate-girl.livejournal.com]

Oh good lord, I AM thick. It was staring me in the face the whole time.

*heads desk*

Thank you!

[lady-amaunet.livejournal.com]

You've turned me from McWeir to this. - shakes finger at and joins up -

Lovely essay describing the relationship and reasons why.

[tielan]

I nearly turned me from Shep/Teyla to this!

"You don't know the power of the Liz/Ronon!"

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Nice manifesto -- I find myself quite taken with this pairing, so hey. & :-)e

[tielan]

Well, it took me completely by surprise. Good surprise, but surprise nevertheless.

[miera-c.livejournal.com]

hey, you forgot my favorite W/D moment!

In "Conversion" when Elizabeth finds the team sitting out on the balcony, Rodney comfort eating, Ronon says to her "Maybe if I went alone, maybe..." and she tells him it's not open for discussion because she won't risk anyone else's life. And he looks at her and makes what might be the first personal admission he's ever said directly to her, "I'm not good at sitting still."

And she looks away, because she can't look right at him and handle the pain in his face and keep her brave leader mask on. OK I'm projecting, but it's a moment between them, the first time I think Elizabeth feels any kind of genuine insight into Ronon.

I was interested in the possibility of them as total opposites (and I've already seen some fic that suggests there is commonality between them as well), not to mention, of course, the sex. Elizabeth can have a fun torrid affair with him without worrying about compromising her leadership by sleeping with someone directly under her command. ;)\

Then you started all your AUs and totally hooked me on them. I feel so guilty! I'm supposed to be the Weir/Zelenka cheerleader dammit!

(you had to name it "liz_ronon"? The calling her "liz" thing bugs me!)

[tielan]

Dude. I completely forgot that moment! Must go back and watch Conversion again. If I can find it...

Actually, I have a lot of SGA eps to watch - first time, not rewatch.

Mmm...torrid affair...

(you had to name it "liz_ronon"? The calling her "liz" thing bugs me!)

To be honest? I called it that mostly because of the shortness. Most people in the fics call her Elizabeth. Except in the Shermer AU where John and Rodney call her Liz. Just 'cause.

I guess if it really bugs people, we can change the name...

[miera-c.livejournal.com]

To be honest? I called it that mostly because of the shortness.

ah. OK, that makes sense.

Except in the Shermer AU where John and Rodney call her Liz. Just 'cause.

Now, see, it doesn't bother me there, because it makes sense that as teenagers the guys of course would've called her that. (though somehow I don't think Ronon would call her anything but Elizabeth in that AU) It's when people do it for the canon versions and there's absolutely no hint that anyone has ever called her anything but Elizabeth (unless you count Sheppard saying it so fast he basically drops the "E" ;)

[tielan]

No, he always calls her Elizabeth. :)

Mostly, I use 'Liz' to refer to her when I'm feeling lazy. But in fic, she's most always Elizabeth. Especially to Ronon.

[eido.livejournal.com]

I was interested in the possibility of them as total opposites

The thing is (and this probably goes without saying, otherwise it would be a lot harder to see them together in any sense at all. Good ol' fashioned aesthetics or prospects of hot sex and all)... they're not all that opposite to me. At least, they have one really fundamental thing in common and they can't even see it. They're both exceedingly emotional characters. Ronon in a more blunt sense. If Ronon doesn't like you, there's a greater than average chance he's going to cut you and most folks know it. Weir in a more subtle, but equally significant way. At least she's better perfected her diplomat mask... yet it's obvious, even to the likes of Kavanaugh, she wears a mask and what she really is is domineered almost entirely on emotion. As much as a petulant, self-important shit Kavanaugh was, I do think he hit the nail right on the head in regards to how Weir leads Atlantis. Although K pretty much sneered it out, I took it as something of a catch 22. You can really feel how much Weir cares for her people, but these emotions have gotten her in trouble on more than one occassion. Ditto Ronon and usually the issue is his temper/bitterness/fear.

And, thus I could very well see their emotions getting both in trouble again. I could totally see some scene where they're stuck together, both getting more and more frustrated then finally end up Kirking like mad. Since I do agree that they completely confound each other and there's intrigue in the mystery (and, they're liek OMGSOHAWT!!!11!). However, the fact that they do confuse each other is ironic considering they're both led by their emotions (often wearing those emotions on their sleeve when they do erupt) and you'd think would be easier for each other to read... as other folks - even the likes of Kavanaugh - can read them. Yet they can't seem to understand one another at all. Likely before or after hypothesized Kirking.

[tielan]

You're right. They are very emotional aren't they? Neither of them are naturally emotion-hiders, although they both can do so when necessary (see Ronon in Trinity when he deceives his Satedan friend and Teyla as to why he wants to meet Kel).

I think that just because Kavanaugh is/was a prick doesn't mean he's not right in that angle. Weir does run the expedition on emotion and that emotion has landed her and the expedition in trouble before. Whether the expedition is necessarily the worse for it is another matter.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Whether the expedition is necessarily the worse for it is another matter.

Although, as it is always (and here I go sounding all cliche and stream of consciousy, so let's see how much of this makes sense), emotion like that is perpetually a strength and a weakness. Atlantis is still alive and there are probably still quite a few folks on Atlantis that would probably nearly die for the project (the one Weir is helming). But yeah... Kavanaugh wasn't wrong about what he said to Weir. Then again, maybe Weir's way is the way it has to be on Atlantis? Despite the needle of the moral compass swaying wider after every ep. I suppose only time will tell.

There's just all kinds of irony in this season for me. They re-established communication with Earth via the Daedalus (a warship), but yet seem all the more disconnected. How far is the distance between the people they'd been before coming to Atlantis and after? Just like anyone, I suppose, after coming home from war. They're just not the same people they were... and not always for the better. The distance is greater for some than others. It's been bad for Weir (since she is the leader, her decisions reverberate through everything), but of course Ford (*sighs* sweet, child-like Ford) is pretty much the poster child of the tragic fallen hero and pretty much symbolic of the whole season (and the other Atlanteans at various levels). I don't like the loss of Ford, but I can understand why the writers did what they did considering the direction the storyline was headed (and essentially replaced Ford with Ronon). Ronon was already down there (still kind of there), about as low as a person could go without completely breaking ... and Weir and the rest of her team seem to continuously be heading down that spiral. This whole season has seemed like it's been setting up everyone on Atlantis for an eventual (inevitable?) really nasty fall.

I'm not spoiled (much), but I probably wouldn't be too surprised at some point or another in the not-too-distant Atlantis future, a new leader takes the helm. Probably turning out to be a strategically decent leader, but is written almost resoundingly unlikable. The Adm. Cain to Weir's Adama or Roslin.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Brilliant points. I'm getting more inspired to write Liz/Ronon Kirking every minute. Pray, continue.

(Oh, and I also totally agree with you about K. He's a pissy little bitch, but he was completely on the nose with regards to Elizabeth's, shall we say, leadership style.

[eido.livejournal.com]

Pray, continue.

I think I've run down my nerdly-shippy-rambling battery for the day. Although I'm not above begging for some LizRo Kirking. There's always energy for that. ::begs::

[permetaform]

Yay! Thank you for this essay and the fic links! ::glomps::

[tielan]

I understand that svmadelyn has posted a list of all the Liz/Ronon stuff of which she knows.

It's somewhere to start until you start writing your own. *hint-hint*.

At first...

[cherryblosomjen.livejournal.com]

There was a time when I laughed at the idea of Liz/Ronon. I never thought it could happen.

Then, I saw their lunchroom scene in Aurora.

My eyes bulged open and I laughed with joy at how Elizabeth became more human (to me) after 2 minutes with Ronon than most of the previous season two eps.

Suffice to say, I'm hooked. They would be so interesting together.

[lostarkeo.livejournal.com]

Oh I'm a John/Liz shipper, hands down! But I've definitely caught the bug! Hehehe..I get all giggly when I think about Liz and Ronon together! WOOT! And yes...the sex would be...amazing, lol.