the horrendous woobie-fying of non-woobie characters

[tielan]

John Sheppard is not a woobie in need of wuv, peoples.

No, really, he is not.

In Stargate Atlantis canon, he is a full-grown man capable of making his own decisions, living his own life, living with the consequences of his choices and those of the people around him, and doing his job without needing someone to constantly pat him on the back and tell him what a good boy he is and what an awesome job he is doing.

Angst him, whump him, thump him, break him, put him through the emotional wringer if you must, but do not make him out to be an emo, internally-sobbing mass that only needs the validation from [character of choice] to be a 'real boy'.

Thank you.

Comments

[havocthecat]

*snickering* People are funny sometimes.

[tielan]

'Funny' isn't the word I'd choose for this...but it's definitely more tactful!

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

I don't mind some mild internal angst and a smidge of emotional neediness here and there, but the paralyzing, sopping wet lack of self-worth some people assign to him does boggle me.

[tielan]

Mild internal angst and touches of emotional neediness are one thing. Desperately needing the affirmation of other characters is something else entirely...

[lizbet0.livejournal.com]

Desperately needing the affirmation of other characters is something else entirely... Especially when you're supposed to be one of the people in charge!

[mirageofmae.livejournal.com]

I concur! =) It's actually a little distressing that a character can be twisted out of shape so much. Says more about the writer than anything else.

[ninja007.livejournal.com]

You nailed why I don't read certain fics. When I get the drift the author is taking the character into a realm that is so far out that my imagination says 'he'd never, ever do that in any AU', I delete it and never go back.

The one reason I do NOT read 99% of McShep. I just don't see it. There was only one fic where the author made me go, 'hmmmm...it's possible'. I love John/Cam fics most times. But, not McShep. I digress...

There are some fics that make me go, "WTF??"

[raksha38.livejournal.com]

There was only one fic where the author made me go, 'hmmmm...it's possible'.

Was it "Written by the Victors"? Cuz that's the only one I have ever seen where the McShep relationship seemed even remotely plausible. I mean, I still had to willfully suspend my disbelief that they were even gay in the first place, but having done that they did seem otherwise in character.

[ninja007.livejournal.com]

No...it was "In The City of Seven Walls" by Auburn. Rodney even reminds John that he is straight. It is so well thought out and written, it was a pleasure to read. John has so much H/C, angst, and brainwashing it's heartbreaking. All John has is Rodney. He believes Teyla and Ronan are dead.

[ninja007.livejournal.com]

LOL....I know what you mean by 'having to suspend my disbelief that they are even gay in the first place,'....

Most times, my jaw drops open and I have a "WTF??" expression on my face....

[raksha38.livejournal.com]

Sing it, sister.

I sometimes wonder that since the fanbrats seem to want all the guys (not just John!) to be insecure teenage girls, why they don't just find a fandom about insecure teenage girls. I mean, there's shit like that all over TV.

But then I remember teenage girls have vaginas and we can't have that!

[ltcoljsheppard.livejournal.com]

Did this entire conversation come about over what I posted to someone who called John conceited for what giving himself a compliment?? Cuz if my response is what has you ranting about making him into an emotional wimp, then you took what I said out of the context it was meant. But to say that because he's a grown man he doesn't need affirmation once in a while is hogwash. We ALL like to be acknowledged. That's all I meant and he had the opportunity to do it so he did. It was a funny moment that I believe he took just to rub Rodney the wrong way which worked. Okay, my response might've been a bit strong on the opposing side but it was a simple reaction that didn't come out the way I meant it too.

I do need to learn to just sit back and keep quiet though. So I do apologize for causing you the need to feel a rant was needed. Especially on your birthday.

I originally came here to wish you a happy birthday, so now I've apologized and wish you a happy birhtday. Have a great day.

- JS

[tielan]

Let's say it was the trigger on top of a lot of ridiculous depictions of Sheppard.

Your post really did have the overtones of "Nobody Ever Thanks Sheppard, Poor Man" whether or not you intended it so.

Underneath it, I heard a lot of the bitterness that you and others on the list seem to feel: "John Sheppard Isn't Appreciated, Woe Is The John Fans!"

You can speak out, by all means. If we all tried to speak in a way so as not to offend others, then we'd never speak at all. You had your complaint about the treatment of John Sheppard in canon; I have my complaint about the treatment of John Sheppard in fanon. It evens out.

And thank you for the birthday wishes; it was a good birthday!

[ltcoljsheppard.livejournal.com]

Oh sorry, I think most of my bitterness right now is real life sort of spilling over... so I'm gonna just be quiet for a while. However, I truly didn't mean to come across as a Woe is John and His Fans. I was just trying to tell the person who accused him of being conceited that it was done tongue-in-cheek and even if it wasn't, what was the harm in offering himself a pat on the back.

Oh well... I DO however also think it would've been awesome to see Teyla as the Daedalus commander and McKay actually in command of Atlantis. That's the fun stuff with AU. She showed she's intelligent enough to learn the ship's workings, I think with some creativity the writers should be able to come up with a reason why an alien civilian might end up as Commander of one of our ships.

I'm glad you had a good birthday. :)

- JS

[havocthecat]

*snickering* People are funny sometimes.

[tielan]

'Funny' isn't the word I'd choose for this...but it's definitely more tactful!

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

I don't mind some mild internal angst and a smidge of emotional neediness here and there, but the paralyzing, sopping wet lack of self-worth some people assign to him does boggle me.

[tielan]

Mild internal angst and touches of emotional neediness are one thing. Desperately needing the affirmation of other characters is something else entirely...

[lizbet0.livejournal.com]

Desperately needing the affirmation of other characters is something else entirely... Especially when you're supposed to be one of the people in charge!

[mirageofmae.livejournal.com]

I concur! =) It's actually a little distressing that a character can be twisted out of shape so much. Says more about the writer than anything else.

[ninja007.livejournal.com]

You nailed why I don't read certain fics. When I get the drift the author is taking the character into a realm that is so far out that my imagination says 'he'd never, ever do that in any AU', I delete it and never go back.

The one reason I do NOT read 99% of McShep. I just don't see it. There was only one fic where the author made me go, 'hmmmm...it's possible'. I love John/Cam fics most times. But, not McShep. I digress...

There are some fics that make me go, "WTF??"

[raksha38.livejournal.com]

There was only one fic where the author made me go, 'hmmmm...it's possible'.

Was it "Written by the Victors"? Cuz that's the only one I have ever seen where the McShep relationship seemed even remotely plausible. I mean, I still had to willfully suspend my disbelief that they were even gay in the first place, but having done that they did seem otherwise in character.

[ninja007.livejournal.com]

No...it was "In The City of Seven Walls" by Auburn. Rodney even reminds John that he is straight. It is so well thought out and written, it was a pleasure to read. John has so much H/C, angst, and brainwashing it's heartbreaking. All John has is Rodney. He believes Teyla and Ronan are dead.

[ninja007.livejournal.com]

LOL....I know what you mean by 'having to suspend my disbelief that they are even gay in the first place,'....

Most times, my jaw drops open and I have a "WTF??" expression on my face....

[raksha38.livejournal.com]

Sing it, sister.

I sometimes wonder that since the fanbrats seem to want all the guys (not just John!) to be insecure teenage girls, why they don't just find a fandom about insecure teenage girls. I mean, there's shit like that all over TV.

But then I remember teenage girls have vaginas and we can't have that!

[ltcoljsheppard.livejournal.com]

Did this entire conversation come about over what I posted to someone who called John conceited for what giving himself a compliment?? Cuz if my response is what has you ranting about making him into an emotional wimp, then you took what I said out of the context it was meant. But to say that because he's a grown man he doesn't need affirmation once in a while is hogwash. We ALL like to be acknowledged. That's all I meant and he had the opportunity to do it so he did. It was a funny moment that I believe he took just to rub Rodney the wrong way which worked. Okay, my response might've been a bit strong on the opposing side but it was a simple reaction that didn't come out the way I meant it too.

I do need to learn to just sit back and keep quiet though. So I do apologize for causing you the need to feel a rant was needed. Especially on your birthday.

I originally came here to wish you a happy birthday, so now I've apologized and wish you a happy birhtday. Have a great day.

- JS

[tielan]

Let's say it was the trigger on top of a lot of ridiculous depictions of Sheppard.

Your post really did have the overtones of "Nobody Ever Thanks Sheppard, Poor Man" whether or not you intended it so.

Underneath it, I heard a lot of the bitterness that you and others on the list seem to feel: "John Sheppard Isn't Appreciated, Woe Is The John Fans!"

You can speak out, by all means. If we all tried to speak in a way so as not to offend others, then we'd never speak at all. You had your complaint about the treatment of John Sheppard in canon; I have my complaint about the treatment of John Sheppard in fanon. It evens out.

And thank you for the birthday wishes; it was a good birthday!

[ltcoljsheppard.livejournal.com]

Oh sorry, I think most of my bitterness right now is real life sort of spilling over... so I'm gonna just be quiet for a while. However, I truly didn't mean to come across as a Woe is John and His Fans. I was just trying to tell the person who accused him of being conceited that it was done tongue-in-cheek and even if it wasn't, what was the harm in offering himself a pat on the back.

Oh well... I DO however also think it would've been awesome to see Teyla as the Daedalus commander and McKay actually in command of Atlantis. That's the fun stuff with AU. She showed she's intelligent enough to learn the ship's workings, I think with some creativity the writers should be able to come up with a reason why an alien civilian might end up as Commander of one of our ships.

I'm glad you had a good birthday. :)

- JS