SGA final episodes leaked

[tielan]

I was hoping to get through Christmas and New Year without that awful sick feeling in my stomach that another SGA episode had aired.

And, really, there's only the awful sick feeling in my stomach that another SGA episode has aired, because all I see now is Whitey McWhiteness: Teyla and Ronon no longer meaningful in episodes or in storylines, Keller - a.k.a. "The New White Girl" - so prominently displayed, and any sense of the awesomeness and potential of the Pegasus galaxy dumbed down, eliminated, or made out to be nothing more than an inferior copy of Earth.

So far, I've seen five reactions to the episodes on my f-list and read three of them. darkrosetiger's reaction to Vegas best describes my feeling about the show and my issues with it. It's not a positive reaction, in case you haven't guessed.

Do I love the characters? Yes, if I ignore a lot of Season Five. Season Four I can reason out as being 'the season that Teyla/Rachel was pregnant'. However Season Five's issues are just too great to overlook.

Do I love the canon? No. Not really, anymore. I'm not sure I ever did. But I hoped for great things from it - and maybe there were, so long as you liked John or Rodney or Keller and didn't care about Teyla or Ronon, or were comfortable with them getting the shaft.

I don't know that I blame other people for enjoying the show when I'm not, but there is a resentment that others are getting something they like out of this show, so why can't I get something I like out of it?

And the bigotry of the show - both subtle and unsubtle - disturbs me. While I'm sure most people don't want to think of the show (or themselves) as racist, I can't shake the feeling that what canon presents is an inherently, systemically racist perspective of Earth and humanity, no matter how much TPTB and fans try to justify that it's not.

I'll admit, I ignored the issues as long as the show was 'ongoing' and had the potential to change: shows have run for years, sucking heavily in the middle run, before pulling up out of a nosedive to once again reach for the limits of their ability. But once the waveform of potentiality collapsed with the announcement that the show would only be five seasons, it dumped the show in the surf and now it's hard to do anything other than see the flaws.

*suddenly laughs*

Years ago, back in 2nd or 3rd Season of SGA, someone commented that SGA was like a boyfriend whom you knew was bad for you and whom you knew you should dump, and whom your friends told you you should dump, and whom your family told you was a loser and a no-hoper, but you just couldn't let go of the belief that one day, he'd get his act together and change.

I wonder if she got out before The Crash.

Incidentally, I've been taking hints that people are ignoring this LJ for the negativity on SGA because they don't want their squee harshed. In which case, feel free to consider this a defriending amnesty. I'm sorry that it's all we had in common, but that's the way that fandom goes - as I've been discovering these last few months. It was a good journey while we were companions with a common interest, now that we're not, it's probably best that we part ways. Cheers, and no hard feelings.

Comments

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I totally turn my brain off for this show, which makes me sad. I miss season three.

[tielan]

I regret the missed potential through all seasons - the places they could have taken the characters with nothing more than a few judicious scenes and some really good writing.

You've watched Dexter. You'd know what I mean.

[sugargroupie.livejournal.com]

I've seen a few posts here and there where fans speak of their disappointment and even bitterness towards SGA, and for you, for these people, I'm sorry this show turned ugly and you lost your joy for it. I only feel rage about SGA now, which is why I don't talk about it, I don't watch it, and I've really cut down on the fic I read. To me, it's a racist and sexist show, and it's sent the message far too many times for me to ignore that it's not FOR me.

Reading the linked episode reaction to "Vegas"... I'm not even surprised, and I'm kind of glad that I've been done with this show for a long time.

[tielan]

The racism is the big ticket item for me in this post, but the frustration with the blatant sexism is another issue that nags me.

[ryf.livejournal.com]

OIne more reason to be glad I stopped watching with season 4. Pushing just a tiny bit into Buffy fandom has given me so much more joy than SGA. I've already had issues with the sexism in SGA, but your posts have opened me up to the race issues in their casting and storylines.

[tielan]

Buffy had it's own issues, sure, but what it didn't have in those areas, it made up for in humour and the minor character threads that twisted in and out of the main character stories.

It really makes a difference when all the characters are treated as though they're actual people with their own lives and loves, not just as support for the main characters.

[butterflykiki.livejournal.com]

My whole take on SGA has always been that of an old boss of mine on a bad construction plan: "It's interesting. The major design flaws are almost entirely obscured by the minor design flaws." I never got enough out of the plot/dialogue/set-ups to start caring enough to be annoyed about how the characters were treated and mis-treated, and bailed out somewhere in second season.

Which doesn't help you or anyone who hung in there and saw potential, of course-- you guys are justified in feeling cheated and short-changed, when your vision had more scope, insight and variety than the television writers'. I love the fic for this fandom a lot more than the original canon; it's both smarter and more aware, which is sad, isn't it? But the universe that the fic writers see is much wilder and wider than anything that ever happened on-screen. I don't know what to tell you; at least the suffering will be over soon, and you guys can reclaim the SGA universe in the name of the fans, I guess.

[tielan]

It's not hard to be smarter and more aware than the show, in truth. I'm still amazed that the show managed to take: "new galaxy, new allies, new enemies" and de-fang and de-claw each one.

At this point it's an "until the bitter end" attitude; but it really is a bitter end. :(

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

I read darkrosetiger's reaction to it as well and I don't even know if I'm disappointed. More like, "Well, thanks for proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the showrunners for this are a bunch of wankers."

Seriously, I look at Stargate SG-1 and though it had it's problems, I never got the feeling that the team, as a whole, was worth less than the individual members. At the end of the day (and the series) what they had was each other, through thick and thin. SGA's end is sad and didn't have to be even with early cancellation.

The best example I have for that would be the end of "Angel." They got the word about cancellation then gave us a pretty fine group of shows when they hit the very end.

I'm tired of other fans who said that Teyla and Ronon were one note, that there was no chemistry from Rachel, Tori, etc. etc. That so much of what we've seen lately is purely geek fanboy posturing of the worst order. And don't even get me started on the sexism/racism/colonialism trifecta. The thing is, in the hands of people with skills, you could have worked with all of those things and weaved them into the story. SGA didn't have to be super deep but it didn't have to be lightweight to the point of oblivion.

What I do value from this are the people who I met because of it, including you. The discussions that have arisen, even when they engendered conflict. The ideas that sit in my head that I still want to play with aside from the show's demise. I'm not going to let those things go away just because the show is on it's way out.

[tielan]

SGA didn't have to be super deep but it didn't have to be lightweight to the point of oblivion.

Having watched something like Dexter, and seeing the small touches they add, where you get the feeling that every character has their own life, their own focus, their own goals - from Angelo (Hispanic) and Masuka (Asian) to Lt. Pascale (I think the character has a Jamaican background), SGA now seems incredibly flat through all it's seasons.

And I find myself not regretting a single downloaded episode. To pay money for something that repeatedly tells me that, as a woman and a non-white) I have no place in saving the galaxy...no, thanks.

Did I ever say 'thank you' for helping me with all my race questions and questioning? For linking me to a lot of race-related stuff and showing me that it's a lot more insidious than I ever imagined it might be?

I can't say it's a "comfortable" view of fandom and shows, but just because I can ignore it (having learned to through years of not seeing any Asian characters in main parts and 'white identifying' to a reasonable degree) doesn't mean I should. Some people don't get to ignore it.

Without putting you on the spot, I think you're the single person who's most enlarged my view of the world these last five years. And I'd like to say 'thanks' for it. *hugs*

[lacylaces.livejournal.com]

I haven't cared that the show is in it's last season or that it's still coming on in months. Most of the episodes this season have been so boring and uninteresting to me anyway.

It's incredibly disappointing how Teyla and Ronon have all but been cast aside for Keller like they aren't necessary anymore now that she's on the show.

[tielan]

It became like they weren't even trying. Maybe they weren't in previous seasons, but only hid it better.

[skandrae.livejournal.com]

I realy haven't been active in SGA fandom for at least a year, but only recently have I started removing related comms from my flist. Your LJ, on the other hand, is not one I would want to de-friend, because I've always enjoyed what you have to say on the subject. (*Hopes that did not sound weird and stalkerish*)

[tielan]

It's one of those situations where I've typed up dozens of posts which I then discarded, or posted privately for me to see and no-one else.

Mostly, that last bit because I know that quite a few people are still pretty happy with the show as it stands - their favourite characters are getting airtime, their favourite characters have great story...but they don't want people pointing out the flaws and issues to them - this is their Funvee! (The HumDrumVee is over there.) They feel they shouldn't have to confront the issues on something that's fun!

You know?

[madjm.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm really irked about this show. I started watching it despite Rodney, who I hated on SG-1, not because of him. I've put up with all these seasons of "Rodney and John save the universe again!" because I love Teyla, only to have Teyla (and Ronon) totally pushed out of the show to make room for Keller, Rodney's true love 4-evah. There was a preview a couple weeks ago that said "only two episodes left before the series finale!" and one of those was a Keller episode and one was this Vegas thing, which I knew didn't have Teyla and Ronon in it at all. One final "screw you" from TPTB, I guess.

Glad your show got cancelled, you mindless hacks!

[tielan]

I'd deal better if it was a "screw-you". A "screw you" would give people something to get up in arms about.

This is very passive-aggressive: "What do you mean?" "Oh, we didn't intend it that way, it just fell out that way!" "Oh, absolutely they're important characters! We just haven't focused on them this year." Or any other year, come to that.

[azure-horizon.livejournal.com]

I miss SGA of old :(

I miss seeing Teyla in an episode for more than a passing glance.

I was kind of... meh about SGA cancellation... But when I thought about watching the last two episodes I was kind of... really sad. I know season 5 has been pants but still - it's SGA and it's been five years of my life. I can't believe - actually, I'm saddened that it is ending with me feeling "meh" about it, rather than the excited fan girl I was for the previous four years.

I blame your LJ :P

I jest.

:(

[tielan]

I blame your LJ :P

The thing is, that's the attitude that some people are putting across: "It's my favourite show and you're ruining it for me by poking at the issues!"

I know you're not among them. Or, at least, I trust you aren't. :)

[renisanz.livejournal.com]

And the bigotry of the show - both subtle and unsubtle - disturbs me. While I'm sure most people don't want to think of the show (or themselves) as racist, I can't shake the feeling that what canon presents is an inherently, systemically racist perspective of Earth and humanity, no matter how much TPTB and fans try to justify that it's not.

I've been seeing this more on the show, yes, in several episodes, particularly with Ronon's character, and it is deeply unsettling. I don't know if I was just in la-la land to not have noticed before, or if it's being done moreso this season in particular.

And then...I wonder if I would care as much if Teyla and Ronon's characters were played by white actors...

[tielan]

I don't know if I was just in la-la land to not have noticed before, or if it's being done moreso this season in particular.

I noticed it in S3 with the lack of any Teyla-centric episodes. But then they said they were going to concentrate on Teyla in S4. And then Rachel got pregnant and any stories that were going to focus or feature her went out the window. After that, it was all downhill.

Still, S4 had the benefit of at least showing the team caring about each other - of a few team-ish moments. S5 is more like TPTB getting off their personal jollies. :(

[bittybye2000.livejournal.com]

What depresses me is that I used to love this show. I used to look forward so much so that my husband did me a favor and took all the animals to the basement so I could have peace and quite.

Now, I haven't seen an episode since Michel Shanks was on...or the one where they turn Teyla into a Wraith, which ever was last.

[tielan]

I've only seen The Prodigal since the one with Replicator Elizabeth. *shrugs*

I might watch the last episode, since it's billed as 'team' - by which they mean that Teyla stands around while John and Rodney argue over the best course of action, and Ronon wanders along behind as Woolsey and Keller discuss important things.

[beth-soprano.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I kind of stopped watching a while ago. I saw five episodes in season four and that was it.
They had a whole galaxy of new cultures, why didn't they do anything with them?? Even the more frequently mentioned cultures, like the Genii, the Athosians, and the Satedans, didn't have the background I would've expected. It seemed like everytime they could have explored an issue, they either ignored it or dipped their toe in, jumped back out without really exploring it, and proclaimed their way/idea/stance was the best.
The writers acted like children playing with their toys: the favorite dolls were always played with and given extraordinary abilities and/or horrific backgrounds, there were a few other toys that were "allowed" to be played with, and the rest were thrown in the corner, because the kids didn't find them "interesting" enough.
It seems like everytime I watch the show I'm left with more questions than answers and it's appalling how many issues the fans fill they need to fix or justify. For example, I have seen a half dozen fics explaining why Ronon didn't use silverware in Duet!
When I first started watching I was hoping the show would end gloriously but there's no hope for that now, is there?

[tielan]

They had a whole galaxy of new cultures, why didn't they do anything with them?

And why didn't they do anything with them that involved the two people who came from that galaxy?

Even when they did interact with the local cultures, the people always bypassed Teyla and Ronon and went straight for John and Rodney or Woolsey or Keller...

[teh-gandu.livejournal.com]

Glad I quit this show at the end of s3.

It has never surprised me that Teyla and Ronon never got developed as characters. Hell, it came as no surprise that they're not in the finale and that the finale was all white washed....

Please, they've always been about McKay and Sheppard, and judging from the comments below, Keller *eyeroll*

*sighs* season one had so for the show....where did it go wrong? I can't believe that they've been given the go ahead for that fucked up new show....


Teyla and Ronon's backgrounds should've been fleshed out more and explored, instead of just focusing on McKay and Sheppard, always. And seriously, how many times can they play Sheppard the hero card *eyeroll*

[tielan]

.where did it go wrong?

You've answered your own question, I think:

Teyla and Ronon's backgrounds should've been fleshed out more and explored, instead of just focusing on McKay and Sheppard, always.

[darkrosetiger.livejournal.com]

What makes "Vegas" worse is that it would have been so easy to include Rachel and Jason. Hell, Jason asked if he could play the Wraith just so he could hang out in Vegas with his boyfriend Joe be in the episode--and they told him no! They'd rather hire another actor than use a guy that they have to pay anyway because he's in the credits.

Nope, no racism to see here. Move along.

[tielan]

I haven't seen the episode. I was hoping that they'd include them somehow - I don't know, a phonecall or a scene shot in Vancouver that was somehow included in the episode.

Regarding Rachel, I'm wondering if there's some resentment over her getting pregnant, because her treatment since has been utterly shitty.

[therisingmoon.livejournal.com]

i've always wondered if it would just be cheaper to just give david hewlett his own show rather than making all the episodes center around him. frankly, i think that might retain a lot of viewers if they're just there to watch him ham it up.

i might still buy season 5 because i'm a completist like that though i doubt i'll be watching from the way they've written episodes to be about everyone else EXCEPT teyla, ronon, and everyone else who isn't rodney or keller. even john, despite being in every episode, has little to do. i guess not watching live anymore after season 3 was better for me. the show being cancelled is kind of a relief because the douchebags running the show would have eventually turned off every viewer from the show.

[tielan]

the show being cancelled is kind of a relief

Yes. Sadly, it is. Because, in hindsight, one can see that the next logical step was to ask Rachel to leave the show. Even Chris Judge (Teal'c in SG1) was never treated so cavalierly.

[beanie-j.livejournal.com]

I'm guilty of a certain amount of non-thought about the issues of 'Vegas', which I'm ashamed of. I think I got to the stage with this show where I was so desperate to find something to enjoy, that I often clung to that which I did without thinking about the nasties in there. But yes, thinking back to the episode, I agree with both you and darkrosetiger - the whitewashing of the episode is disgusting and I'm actually fairly happy that SGA is over now. And not because of fandom negativity - I find the opinions to be engaging - but because the show has just become so fucking shallow that all there is to get from it is shallow enjoyment. I want more for my characters than that and up until 'Vegas' the only people getting the sort of character development I want to see are characters I have no interest or investment in.

Ultimately, the show just turned into a writer's Marty-Sue wankfest, where they were self-inserting themselves on Rodney for the dream of getting a girl like Keller; a character that I didn't mind at first but got bored of being shoehorned in over the rest of the main cast.

[tielan]

I get the non-thought on Vegas. Sheppard-fans are happy to finally have something about Sheppard.

But Vegas is symptomatic of a broader problem with SGA - the fact that there somehow isn't a way to write more than one character at a time, and that the non-white people are never written in stories without the white people coming to save the day.

Even in the S4 Teyla episode "Missing", in which Teyla discovers her people have been taken, the person who got the awards nomination by TPTB? Was Jewel Staite.

So, yeah. There are issues with SGA canon and fanon. Whether fans want to face up to the issues, or simply say "it was a great episode and anyone who thinks otherwise or disses it is no longer my friend" is up to them.

[rushingwind.livejournal.com]

Hmm, has there ever been a non-white character in Stargate verse who had a Ph.D.? Or at least just a really intelligent non-white person? I can't think of a single person, either from SGA or SG1.

The single greatest episode of SGA? Was Rising. The premiere of SGA, to borrow an expression from another post of yours, sowed "seeds of greatness" (but got lost in a jungle). The image of the friggin' lost city of Atlantis, rising triumphantly, released from thousands of years under water....

The image of the City rising to the surface was one of hope, and one of promise. It was a new world, a new era. When I watched it, I felt the awe of the characters as my own. As one of the characters said, "Let's not waste it." Human and Athosian alike stared around in wonder.

And that's what breaks my heart more than anything else. How could something so beautiful as the rising of the City be squandered and misused so badly? How could the producers forget it? That scene is what drew me in to watching Atlantis, and still there has been nothing nearly so iconic, nor meaningful as that first image.

I think that's what upsets me so much about SGA. It had so much potential. So many chances to build alliances and relationships between peoples. It could have been the show to watch. All the makings were there in episode one. And it was all wasted.

[tielan]

They needed a writing team that hadn't come from SG1, that had new ideas, and who were willing to allow them to play.

[dzurlady.livejournal.com]

The fic for SGA was always so much better than canon. It breaks my heart the way the writers ignored so much potential. I haven't watched much past s2 (maybe a few episodes of s3?) and I don't regret it. (I've also moved into new fandoms, which I'm sure you know.)

[tielan]

Oh, SGA, I wish I could quit you...

[chyti.livejournal.com]

I tried to get one of my friends to watch the show and she told me that, "black people don't do sci-fi" I shook my head at her at the time but I guess she was right. POC aren't important in the sga universe, actually the pegasus galaxy isn't important.

Do you know that here in the states the NAACP are looking into the whiteness of the current televison shows. There is a problem and it is not just you who are seeing it.

[fishphile.livejournal.com]

The NAACP does it like every year and every year it's nearly the same, but the networks are being more shamed this time because, I think, of Obama winning. It's like we can have a black (bi-racial) president, but we can't find people on f***ing ABC or NBC or anywhere else? That's bullsh*t!

And really has SF done anything to encourage POC to join in? It's really hard to sell to other POC cause what do you have as an example for them? Can you imagine getting someone all hyped up on Ronon or Teyla this last season, they tune in and then pow nothing about either SGA character? Yeah.

[fishphile.livejournal.com]

Anyway, I really gave up on SGA during that episode where Keller was a wuss and Teyla had to save her and look for her people and at the end Keller ended getting the most "awwwwww". I dropped it then.

I did make the mistake of flipping by a few weeks ago, on a rare friday night off, and spotting whatever the hell they put on top of Jason's head that's supposed to be hair, I guess and I didn't bother looking at the episode, I just turned it.

I hope Jason and Rachel stopped by tptb's office and told them where to shove it. I know that's not professional, but whatever.

[beakymoose.livejournal.com]

I have to say, I've sort of dropped off watching Atlantis episodes as they air this season (which is the first time I've ever done this). I have a couple of reasons for this. Firat of all, I have had some personal stuff that has taken up y tie this year. Secondly, I have been...disappointed to say the least with this season. As so many people have said, Atlantis had such potential, and, quite frankly, the writers and tptb have crapped on us all. Third, as sad as it sounds, I want to make Atlantis last as long as possible, because it has always had so much potentional (so much *untold* potential).

I personally think things started to go down the toilet as soon as they brought the Replicators back. I mean, it wasn't bad enough that SG-1 had them for five seasons and a movie...but to voluntarily bring them into Atlantis *knowing* what a pain in the ass they were...well, that's just stupid.

I didn't consciously realize it until you mentioned it, but Keller does get more screen time than her character really should. This isn't to say that I don't like Keller, because I do. But Ronan and Teyla have been main, core, components of the show for far longer, and they are far more important to the show than Keller.

I have a few episodes to watch before they final two-ish (I think) air, and I hold out very little hope that I will not be disappointed in them. When I heard Atlantis was being cancelled, I hoped that they would end it better than SG-1, and by the looks of it, tptb will end it even worse. Shame on them if they're not creative enough to actually delve into the depths of storylines they never completed. They should have been fired a few seasons ago and replaced with some of the more talented fic writers hanging around here. Honestly, the show would be better off.

And I don't suppose we're going to get any movies to wrap things up nicely? So we'll never know if Ford lived, if Elizabeth ever reactivated from her replicator body, etc?

Again, I say shame on the writers. They, quite literally, had a whole new universe to work with and they frakked it up.

Sorry, a little rant...

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I totally turn my brain off for this show, which makes me sad. I miss season three.

[tielan]

I regret the missed potential through all seasons - the places they could have taken the characters with nothing more than a few judicious scenes and some really good writing.

You've watched Dexter. You'd know what I mean.

[sugargroupie.livejournal.com]

I've seen a few posts here and there where fans speak of their disappointment and even bitterness towards SGA, and for you, for these people, I'm sorry this show turned ugly and you lost your joy for it. I only feel rage about SGA now, which is why I don't talk about it, I don't watch it, and I've really cut down on the fic I read. To me, it's a racist and sexist show, and it's sent the message far too many times for me to ignore that it's not FOR me.

Reading the linked episode reaction to "Vegas"... I'm not even surprised, and I'm kind of glad that I've been done with this show for a long time.

[tielan]

The racism is the big ticket item for me in this post, but the frustration with the blatant sexism is another issue that nags me.

[ryf.livejournal.com]

OIne more reason to be glad I stopped watching with season 4. Pushing just a tiny bit into Buffy fandom has given me so much more joy than SGA. I've already had issues with the sexism in SGA, but your posts have opened me up to the race issues in their casting and storylines.

[tielan]

Buffy had it's own issues, sure, but what it didn't have in those areas, it made up for in humour and the minor character threads that twisted in and out of the main character stories.

It really makes a difference when all the characters are treated as though they're actual people with their own lives and loves, not just as support for the main characters.

[butterflykiki.livejournal.com]

My whole take on SGA has always been that of an old boss of mine on a bad construction plan: "It's interesting. The major design flaws are almost entirely obscured by the minor design flaws." I never got enough out of the plot/dialogue/set-ups to start caring enough to be annoyed about how the characters were treated and mis-treated, and bailed out somewhere in second season.

Which doesn't help you or anyone who hung in there and saw potential, of course-- you guys are justified in feeling cheated and short-changed, when your vision had more scope, insight and variety than the television writers'. I love the fic for this fandom a lot more than the original canon; it's both smarter and more aware, which is sad, isn't it? But the universe that the fic writers see is much wilder and wider than anything that ever happened on-screen. I don't know what to tell you; at least the suffering will be over soon, and you guys can reclaim the SGA universe in the name of the fans, I guess.

[tielan]

It's not hard to be smarter and more aware than the show, in truth. I'm still amazed that the show managed to take: "new galaxy, new allies, new enemies" and de-fang and de-claw each one.

At this point it's an "until the bitter end" attitude; but it really is a bitter end. :(