on derivative works and serial numbers

[tielan]

taraljc has a great explanation of Why Fanfic Relies On Context (a.k.a. Why Filing Off The Serial Numbers Doesn't Work)

I've written original fiction where I essentially filed off the serial numbers. More than one story, in fact. However, in each case, the context of the story bears little to no resemblance to the original universes; only the characters and their essential personalities have been transported through the looking-glass and into the story. I like to think that the characters are more archetypical, "based upon" rather than direct copies of. On the other hand, readers knowledgeable about my fandoms and favourites could spot the prototype characters in those stories from five klicks away and probably wouldn't even need glasses to do so.

Regarding pro-authors against fanfic:

One of my favourite authors once requested that fans not write fanfiction about her worlds and characters - partly because of the copyright issue, but also because she said she wanted fans to write their own stories and worlds so she could read them. I don't know if her perspective has changed in the decade since she said this, or if she's re-couched it in different phrasing. Certainly her fandom is small and fairly close-knit, she hasn't written much since the turn of the millenium, and so most people have observed her wishes in this.

And, we're back to serial numbers and filing them off, again. Because this author started off in fanfiction. In fact, she's sold novels that are more or less rewrites of stuff she wrote while in fandom. Those serial numbers? Are filed off pretty good. But if you look at the basic story of betrayal and power and redemption, the way the characters interact, or even the archetypes they represent, the serial numbers spring back into sharp relief.

It's a damned good story.

Which isn't to say that taraljc is wrong or that Gabaldon is right.

The truth is, one can file off the serial numbers if one wishes to - it can be done. But most fanficcers don't want to, because the fanfic is all about 'what if' and alternative possibilities (even porn in fanfiction is primarily a sexual 'what if' tailored to one's own preferences and kinks) - and for a 'what if' or AU to fully work, knowledge of the original scenario is necessary.

Plus, it's always fun playing in a pre-setup sandbox, where you don't have to sell people on the existence of the sandbox in the first place.

Comments

[havocthecat]

Oh, seriously, I know what you mean. I've filed off the serial numbers before, and that's hard work. You have to take your basic premise and rework the whole world, most of the time.

And, mind you, I find that fun, and I think you do too. :)

But fanfic is its own kind of fun. It's a different kind of writing (easier in some ways) and it's got a set of rewards that involve an already-established community.

[tielan]

Oh, yes - it's the world that needs to be reworked in "filing off the serial numbers" - in which Gabaldon really missed the point. You're not just filing off serial numbers, you're filing off everything external about the characters and their situation. Almost anything that could be identified as specific characters. And yeah, that's a lot of effort (and, yes, it's enjoyable, too).

It's a different kind of writing (easier in some ways) and it's got a set of rewards that involve an already-established community.

And it's very much a training ground for writing, if you're intelligent enough to recognise it as a learning experience.

I know that I'm a better writer now than I was ten years ago when I started writing fanfiction; I know that I can complete a novel-length story, I know how to structure a plot, I know how to write characters. I may not be very good at it, but I was even worse at it ten years ago.

[timespirt]

What does serial numbers in this mean?

[tielan]

Filing off the serial numbers at fanlore.org

Hope that helps in explanation!

[timespirt]

Thank you, that did help.

[rhianona]

I think it is interesting when writers ask that their fans not write fanfic based on their works. I understand it is their prerogative but honestly, they have no legal standing to prevent it, except in the case of someone actually profiting from it - and even then the law hasn't been decided.

I also think you nail it on the head as to why most fanfic writers write fanfic. I know that's why I write it. And of course, it also improves my own writing skills.

[tielan]

There've been myriad posts about the matter from pro-authors, but there was a very relevant one from Scalzi, I think, or someone else, that likened an author to a dragon who loves his gold. Take his gold away from him (ie. do something to infringe his fiscal rights to the proceeds of his ideas) and he'll be angry. Bring him more gold (ie. do something that promotes or endorses his work) and he'll be happy.

As long as it doesn't endanger the money-making copyright of the author's original work, most authors are okay with it. The thing that many of them might get antsy about is where they get sued for someone's fanfic idea or something they've worked on gets shelved because a fan sues for the same idea.

eg. I think it was MZB who was originally okay with fanfic, and used to encourage it. Then she wrote an entire Darkover novel with a similar premise to something some fan had written. The fan argued she had rights to the novel proceeds. Result? After assorted attempts to reach an agreement with the fan (who apparently wouldn't settle for anything less than whatever she initially thought she was entitled to), the novel was shelved. Permanently.

Two years of MZB's work? Gone. Down the drain. Never to be financially viable. So, yeah, I understand why authors are wary of fanfic (and often the fans who produce them).

[rhianona]

While I sympathize with authors such as MZB, an author whose work I am a fan of, I still don't think they have a legal leg to stand on. And that is, for me, the main interest in this discussion. I read and know of plenty of authors that have asked fans not to write fanfic based on their works. It doesn't stop fans from doing so, just prevents them from tagging them as being based on said author's works on major fanfic sites, such as FFN. I also know of plenty of authors who don't speak about its presence. Still others say that they consider it an honor that their fans would want to write fic based on their works.

The issue of fanfic or fanworks in general has never been adjudicated before the court in the US, and as far as I know, anywhere else in the world. And until this is done, the only recourse authors have is to ask their fans not to write fanfic based on their works, while knowing that not all fans will abide by their wishes OR for an author or publishing house to actually bring an action to the courts on this issue. Until then, it is merely threat of legal action.

As to your example, I'm surprised that the fan who was blackmailing MZB was able to do so successfully. The fan should have lost since said fan would have had to prove that MZB read said fanfic and that the fanfic was the direct inspiration for it. Unless MZB commented on the fic or mentioned reading it, I don't see how it is possible for the fan to win - and even if MZB did say she had read the fic, it would still be difficult for the fan to win since it is based on MZB's original works.

Most authors that I know or follow, directly state that they do not read manuscripts sent to them as they've been advised by their lawyers not to. I imagine that they will be adding fanfic to that disclaimer as well if it becomes a major issue.

Again, I'm not coming down on any one side in this argument. I think it is a complex issue, with many good points to be made on either side. However, from a legal standpoint, I do not believe an author has any legal recourse at this time simply because no one has ever brought it to a court for adjudication. Under current US legal doctrine, fanfic would most likely fall under Fair Use Doctrine and the author would need to prove several points in order to prevent fanfic - and those points aren't easy to prove.

[tielan]

Look, I'm not arguing whether it's legal or not, whether an author would win in a court of law. It's up to the fanficcer whether they abide by the wishes of the author and for what reasons.

The issue with MZB came about because MZB encouraged fanfiction, read it, and even participated in some of it herself. (This was back in the late 80s, early 90s, mind you, long before the internet as we know it, probably back to the oldest days of usenet groups.) That's where the "I'm not going to read your stuff because I may lose value" came into force, and where authors became chary of fanfic.