3.18 - Submersion

[tielan]

I suspect that I'm going to sit contrary to at least 90% of the fandom on this, but this is one of the few 'rewatchable' eps of the season for me.

I'm still not sold on the 'everyone important leaves Atlantis' stories. I mean, if disaster really threatened, the city would be without everyone important. Then again, the Stargate universe's take on reality tends to be a little tenuous in some places.

I admit that at least one large part of my delight in this episode is Teyla getting a real, honest-to-God part, with lines and purpose and things to do and Wraith Queens to fight. Plus, you know, that kick in Ronon's balls? Utterly precious.

Incidentally, was I the only one who thought that Teyla should have taken control of the Queen's mind, forced her to swim back to the Wraith ship, and made her undo the self-destruct, before shutting down her brain?

The other part of my delight - and, again, it's a fairly large part - was that the John/Rodney dynamic that's been done and done and done and overdone in Season Three was put on the backburner. Thank. God. I like the John/Rodney dynamic: I just dislike the overdoing of same. The John/Rodney steak in SGA is not well-done, but fucking charcoal. Sadly, I like it medium-to-rare. It's like vegemite, or salt: a little can go a long way. I'd rather have John/Ronon, John/Teyla, Teyla/Elizabeth, Teyla/Rodney, Rodney/Elizabeth, Rodney/Zelenka, John/Lorne...

Oh well. As pentapus said, rather aptly, it's like someone went: "Crap! It's a Teyla ep! Switch back to John and Rodney! Quick! Switch back!".

Still, even half an ep is better than none. And there's been a lot of 'Teyla scenes = none', lately.

Now, if we can only persuade Mallozzi, Mullie, and the writing crew to keep writing Teyla: good, bad, or Wraith mind-controlled! According to a recent response from Mallozzi, there are "big plans in store for Teyla" in Season Four. Let's hope they really are 'big plans' and not a couple of throwaway episodes.

Smallish notes: the Atlantis set looked rather nice with wall hangings and lit up in a blue light, Elizabeth has done incredibly stupid 'trusting' things in the past, Zelenka had cute lines and nice banter with Rodney, Teyla called 'shotgun' on Rodney, Rodney looks so enthusiastic going into the face of danger, and at the end, the geeks are *distracted by shiny* while the military types are *distracted by inherent hotness of team-mates* *sleeps*.

Plus, you know, Teyla overpowered a Wraith Queen!

I freely admit that I like this because I got Teyla in it. And that I'm overlooking the plotholes, lack-of-Carson-mentionage ('Sunday' was screened 'out of production order' in any rate, so mentions of what happened 'last week' are unlikely), and the fact that it doesn't sit in the arc, because of it.

My favourite character got used for this ep. And I loved it.

So, yeah, in conclusion: an episode I really enjoyed. Which probably means that at least three-quarters of the fandom will hate it or be 'meh' about it. My tastes in Atlantis fandom seem to run that way.

Comments

[therisingmoon.livejournal.com]

I like the John/Rodney dynamic: I just dislike the overdoing of same. The John/Rodney steak in SGA is not well-done, but fucking charcoal.
exactly, i like the dynamic but for the love of god, i'm getting sick and bored of it. it's like eating the same thing over and over again and my palate is exhausted. i guess that's why i tend to avoid the bigger pairings like john/rodney and john/elizabeth and teyla/ronon and choose the lesser known pairings because i like my variety.

[tielan]

Yeah, I'm with you on the 'less popular' pairings front. Although it's more the bad personal experiences with McSheps and Shweirs that threw me completely out of ever shipping those two.

Ultimately, however, I really like the dynamics of all the friendships - I just dislike the overdoing. And John/Rodney has been way way overdone.

I was actually rather pleased to have Rodney name Carson as the closest thing to a best friend he's ever had. Time-on-screen-together does not necessarily equal best-friends-forever.

[rhianona]

As you may have read, I was less than thrilled with the plot of this episode b/c well... it seemed a bit *too* unrealistic, if you get my drift. On the other hand, like you, I was thrilled to see Teyla in an actual role. I was commenting on this earlier today, re: the lack of a real role Teyla has in SGA, which seems in direct contrast to Carter on SG1.

The whole Wraith queen thing was cool, I liked how they showed how powerful the queen is. The only reason I won't give this episode a high rating is b/c the plot holes are enough to make it swiss cheese. Things were too convenient.

Agree with you on the end... was I the only one envisioning a threesome? Because man. They were all hot, despite John being more fully dressed than the other two.

[tielan]

Part of the lack of a real role for Teyla is related to the direction in which they've taken the show: ie. Earth-centric and Earth-ascendant with little significant Pegasus interaction; boom-bang-technobabble solutions, rather than diplomatic or rearranging solutions; and dismissing the Wraith threat (to all Pegasus) in favour of the Asurans (specific to Atlantis).

The focus on Earth, Earth, Earth is what has left Teyla (and, indirectly, Ronon) without a concrete and stereotypical role in the show. And without stereotypes, the writers - and most of fandom - don't have the faintest idea of how to treat a character.

And every episode of this series has holes like swiss cheese. I haven't seen one yet that I couldn't find a plothole an Aurora-class ship couldn't get through. What I find differs from ep to ep is whether or not the episode hits a fan's 'squee' points - which I find then dictates whether or not the fan is willing to forgive the holes.

[rhianona]

The focus on Earth, Earth, Earth is what has left Teyla (and, indirectly, Ronon) without a concrete and stereotypical role in the show. And without stereotypes, the writers - and most of fandom - don't have the faintest idea of how to treat a character.

This is an interesting point I've not really thought of before. I agree with you on this point; it might be the structure of the first season: the focus on trying to survive and reinstitute contact with Earth. By the time we get to season 2, this pattern on focusing on Earth had been established. There was no Daniel Jackson character on the first gate team to urge a more multicultural, less ethnocentric viewpoint towards the natives. They established in the beginning that Teyla wasn't trusted by most of the expedition, which makes it hard for her to urge the viewpoint for the Pegasus natives. By the time she is an "accepted" member of the expedition, the pattern of not listening to her has been instilled.

[tielan]

Well, I was looking at it from the perspective of 'the Atlantis expedition hasn't done anything to really integrate into the Pegasus system' rather than 'Teyla wasn't trusted by the expedition until Season Two' - but that's a very valid point.

Ironically, once she is trusted, then there's been no real effort (from a writing perspective) to make her voice heard.

From my perspective, the Earthnocentric focus seems to be more of an issue in the way the series has been written, (tying in with the probable Americentricity of the main audience, granted, but still extremely frustrating), since SG1 also showed a very Earthnocentric attitude: it's always Earth that's at the forefront of the fight, their 'allies' are generally in name rather than in action, and often rely on Earth more than Earth relies on them.

[rhianona]

since SG1 also showed a very Earthnocentric attitude: it's always Earth that's at the forefront of the fight, their 'allies' are generally in name rather than in action, and often rely on Earth more than Earth relies on them.

True, but Daniel could always be counted on, especially in the beginning of the series to urge for looking to others for help - to not just do it the Earth way. Especially in the middle seasons of the series, when he is often going against the military solution or urging for more thought before action is taken.

I was looking at it from the perspective of 'the Atlantis expedition hasn't done anything to really integrate into the Pegasus system'
I think this is a direct result though from the focus of the first season. Once season 2 starts and they have reestablished contact with Earth, the expedition is already used to doing things the way they had in the previous year. I bet if they hadn't established contact with Earth, they would be more on their way to integrating with Pegasus. But now Earth is there, close enough to send people back and forth relatively quickly, to keep the ties of loyalty open and strong.

Ironically, once she is trusted, then there's been no real effort (from a writing perspective) to make her voice heard.
In part that can be seen as a direct result of her not really being a real character in season 2 and a lot of season 3. She is just now becoming something more than she was. I don't think the writers knew what to do with her. As long as Ford was a character, she could be the mysterious alien. But with Ronon on the team, she has to become something more, or the characters seem too redudant. I'm hoping that season 4 will continue to expand on the characters who are underutilized, like Teyla and Ronon and we'll see more teamness.

[tielan]

I guess I just feel that the 'we need to get back in contact with Earth' focus was impractical for their situation. What if they couldn't get in touch with Earth? Shouldn't they have been building bridges from day 1? Wasn't that the point of having a non-military negotiator in charge of the expedition?

I'm hoping that season 4 will continue to expand on the characters who are underutilized, like Teyla and Ronon and we'll see more teamness.

Given a few posts I've read lately, I'm becoming convinced that 'team-ness' is fan-code for "the characters of my preferred pairing spending always on-screen together" and not actually meaning "four individuals with various skills all working as a synergistic unit".

But, yes; I'm all for more Teyla, more Ronon, and more John-Teyla-Rodney-Ronon-as-a-unit teamness in Season Four.

[rhianona]

I guess I just feel that the 'we need to get back in contact with Earth' focus was impractical for their situation.
Oh, I agree. I think it would have been a heck of a lot better if they had not been able to reconnect with Earth. I would have enjoyed the series more than I do, b/c it would have made for more interesting television. I think the writers wanted to be able to do crossovers though.

I'm becoming convinced that 'team-ness' is fan-code for "the characters of my preferred pairing spending always on-screen together" and not actually meaning "four individuals with various skills all working as a synergistic unit".

I won't deny that I like the McKay/Sheppard dynamic. It's hard not to, b/c the writers have created an actual relationship between the two of them. They are the characters that have been the most fully realized. But the episodes I really like best? Those are the ones that focus on the team as a whole. I love seeing Ronon and Teyla doing something. I loved the Ronon/Sheppard aspect of Sunday; the Teyla/Elizabeth/Kate aspect of Echoes. That Teyla was the one to talk John out of shooting Kolya in Irresponsible. How in Sateda, the team comes together to help Ronon. And the Tao of Rodney - yeah, it focused on Rodney, but, all the little scenes they put in with him and the other characters were terrific. I want to see the team pulling together to work out problems, to help each other out. I want Teyla and Ronon to become actual characters instead of the one dimensial stereotypes they are now.

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

You mean 'Submersion' is Teyla-centric? :D I don't know very much about it, but it sounds good already. ^.^

[tielan]

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's Teyla-centric. But Teyla plays a very significant part in the story and the solution.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I did like it quite a bit myself, mostly for the reasons you mentioned here.

[tielan]

Now if they'd only do more episodes like this!

*pins hopes on S4*

[ladyeclectic79.livejournal.com]

When I saw Paul McGillion was in the credits I was all WTF, but I guess if it was screened out of order that'd be more understandable. I'm kind of getting the picture that a certain someone, dunno who, is writing a lot of S3's screenplays because they keep doing the "Three Hours Ago" or "Thirty Minutes Prior" in their storylines. But that's just a nitpick.

And it's about time Teyla does something other than be in the background. I'd love to see more character development with her, and I wonder which of the guys she was talking about in the last episode to the tumor-bomb-chick.

[tielan]

Yeah, the 'telling us the time' scene-setter is becoming a little annoying in parts. But I suspect it's a style thing for people.

They'll never tell us which of the guys she was talking about. It'll be left as speculation - because that's what these PTB do.

[bruinsfan.livejournal.com]

Oh, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of TPTB introducing Teyla's crush, Corporal Disposable, in some 4th season episode just prior to killing him off so they could give Luttrell a chance to do a grieving showcase episode. 30 minutes of Teyla weeping and swearing vengeance strikes me as just exactly what these writers would consider "big plans."

[pixiesio.livejournal.com]

Well, you probably missed my post, but I liked the ep, mostly because they actually did something with Teyla.

[tielan]

I skimmed it when you first posted it since I hadn't seen the ep. Plus, there's Heroes spoilers in there, too, and I'm not up to date on that series.

[tielan]

Okay, I skimmed the Heroes spoilers, and I read your bit on Submersion.

I guess, regarding the 'most of the fandom will dislike this ep precisely for the reasons I loved it': my f-list is not 'most of the fandom'. It is, as f-lists tend to be, full of people who share reasonably similar views to mine.

[pixiesio.livejournal.com]

*smooch*

[jeyla4ever.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on this one....and of course, like you wrote...perhaps mostly because of Teyla's role in this one..although I have to say, this was a girls episode....Weir was totally great for me in this one as well...and that Wraith Queen....MAN she was like a punk rocker that woke up from the 80's...LOL

but, suffice to say, it did have some holes for me....but nothing major...I thought John's hands trembled a bit too much....and I thought he asked Ronon to be ready too much! LOL

Is this a new John? A fearsome John? Who knows...

I liked it much better than Sunday....I know...believe me it's too long to share! LOL

Ken C...likes these type of dark stories and I like them too...with the exception of Common Ground that was very heavy John/Wraith/Weir....Ken has used Teyla wonderfully in both The Ark and now in Submerssion...in reality, he commented in GW that he wrote this episode as a Teyla centric episode but it got sidetracked and thus it is heavily Teyla but it's not based around her character like other character-centric episodes....

I wrote this before....but I'll write it again...the fact that Teyla was able to outsmart a Wraith means a lot..and I"m hoping that the writers delve more into this idea....The times that Teyla has encounter with Wraiths, they all challenge her but none have tried to kill her...well, with the exception of the guy in Suspicion....but still think about it....Teyla says in Submerssion that the Wraith Queen not only sensed all of them..but then she stressed, she sensed me!

That has to mean something....the Wraith may not be able to get in Teyla's mind without her opening her mind to them...but they can sense her...could this mean that they can sense her Wraith Gene?

What does that mean? And will they treat her differently because of it?

I think there's so much potential here...and I can't wait to see where the Writers take it....

Overall, I really liked this episode....and like Tie wrote...one that I would definetly keep as a good one to rewatch!