*sigh*

[tielan]

So, what is there to say?

Over at Gateworld, the latest edition of SciFi Magazine has kicked up a shitstorm.

According an article in the magazine, Carter will be a full-bird Colonel when she comes to Atlantis, and will take over from Elizabeth as the expedition leader.

Robert C Cooper is quoted: "I can't make people feel better who just love Torri and Dr. Weir and want to see her on the show," sighs Cooper. "Unfortunately, that's just not going to happen. All I can say is that Sam Carter is a wonderful character, and Amanda Tapping is a wonderful actress, and I think she will fill the role on Atlantis admirably. I'm excited about seeing the evolution of her character. Brad and I created the character Dr. Weir and we love the character and Torri, but the change needed to be made."

--

I'll still be watching.

Sam Carter is my favourite character on SG1, I make no bones about that. Like Teyla, she's the character that draws me into the storylines and the plot, more so than Jack, Daniel, Teal'c, Jonas, Cameron, or Vala.

I'm ambivalent about her being in Atlantis, partly because second-in-command on an outgoing stargating team is a very different situation to in-command of Atlantis, and partly because while I love Sam, I'd much rather see more about Teyla and Ronon: two characters who have received the short end of the stick from PTB and fans.

If Sam is used in the same manner as Elizabeth ended up being used: the person sending them out, occasionally assisting in the Atlantis-based episodes, then I don't think I'll have too much of a problem with her. If the show does turn out to be about Sam Carter, then, yes, I will be annoyed.

I tune in to Atlantis to watch the team. All four of them - not just John and Rodney, not just John and Teyla - all of them. I've heard things that suggest Teyla is going to get some serious episodage this season, and I'm relieved, since she's been scanted for the last two. There's at least one episode featuring Ronon, which also interests me: in truth, John, Rodney, and Elizabeth turned out too much like Jack, Sam, and Daniel were in SG1 - only pale imitations, as a friend noted.

One thing that sincerely interests me about Season Four, however, is how they're going to manage the Carter/Sheppard dynamic. Not romantic, but in terms of their roles in Atlantis and how John will deal with someone who has the military authority to rein him in, as neither Elizabeth nor Caldwell had. He's used to running wild, is John. I don't see Sam putting up with that.

I imagine they'll short-cut it. Or possibly wimp Sam out the way they tended to wimp Elizabeth out when John got the bit in his mouth and ran with it against anyone else's authority. Still, there's possibility there. John Sheppard's the golden boy character of Atlantis; Sam Carter's the golden girl character of SG1 - when they go head-to-head, who comes out the winner in TPTB's books?

I'm not happy about Elizabeth's reduction or Carson's death. I would have liked to see Elizabeth given more of a role as a negotiator with civilisations, doing what she's allegedly so good at doing. Plus, I liked the original six and the recurring characters that popped up in the show with cheerful regularity. But I'm not going to scream and yell and insult TPTB, make dire predictions, or quit watching the show.

People are angry, and heated responses are to be expected. I've been there, anguished that on another show before. I'd probably be a wreck if it was Teyla being axed. But I like to think I'd keep most of my cool, even through the disappointment.

Still...*hugs* to the people on my f-list who are angry or disappointed or saddened by the news and are reading this.

Comments

[blade-girl.livejournal.com]

What I hate most about this is that one of the things that differentiated SGA from SG-1 was that Atlantis was a civilian-run operation. Now the military will be in charge absolutely, which makes the expedition a completely different mission. If they simply didn't like Torri or Weir, why couldn't they have found another civilian character to replace Weir? It really seems to me that they are getting around the cancellation of SG-1 by remaking SGA. What a shame.

[tielan]

I agree that they could have done so much more with the civilian angle - more negotiation using Elizabeth and Teyla, more strategic stuff, less technical or explosive solutions.

I'm still going to hold off judgement until I see how Carter is depicted within the role of Atlantis leader. She's military, sure, but some of the character's earliest angles were scientific, so I'm wondering if they're going to bring that out instead.

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

I think it's more about finding a spot on Atlantis for Carter/Tapping than any dislike for Weir/Torri. And they love McKay/Hewlett too much to get rid of him.

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

Actually what you have to realize is that there is a reason why it will be militarized. I notice people seem to forget this when they complain that of the change from civilian to military.

Atlantis is a threat! It is a direct threat to Earth. They want the Expedition to be successful and have an outpost in the PG, since now they have enemies who know the bloody location of Earth. It cannot be maintained by civilians.

Think about this. You live in a small country that is now under attack by enemy soldiers...are you going to send your doctors/scientists out there on the front line?! No, you won't. You'll send your soldiers.

Atlantis went from having just the Wraith (who had no idea of the location of Earth) and Genii (another group with no location of Earth)--to having the Genii (because I don't get the relationship), the Wraith, The Asurans, and Michael and his bug buddies as enemies. Michael destroyed "safe planets" and has hundreds of those bugs on various planets---feeding on people. He knows the location of Earth. He also knows the gate address of Atlantis. He's a threat. The Wraith are still around, who might know that Atlantis still exists. We have the Genii still out there, and now the Asurans are really out to get the Expedition AND most likely Earth.

When Earth is under threat there is no civilian who can hold the fort. Even the president defers levels authority to his generals and commanders in the military (even though he has executive decision in sending troops to a locale). Atlantis poses a threat to millions of people on Earth--those people are protected by national "police"--the military. Weir cannot strategize and inform them of what is the best method of attack or what to do in such situations, Carter can.

Atlantis HAD to become militarized. If Michael never occurred, maybe I'd say no. But it did and we also had the Asurans, there is no way that this wasn't supposed to happen. I'm just surprised it took so long.

Just as further clarification, who becomes in charge when Atlantis is threatened...that's right John (military). So this is the case for Earth and as Atlantis is the main base, it needed to fall into military hands. It just so happens that Sam is both military/scientist so she mediates both sections.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

However, the situation in Atlantis being what it is, it doesn't make sense that Atlantis is civilian-run. If it wasn't going to be Sam taking over, it would have been someone else, such as Caldwell (which wouldn't have been a bad thing, I don't think).

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

I've often wondered/felt that the removal of Carson and Weir have much to do with finances--they're bringing in Amanda, who has to be expensive, so they axed the two main characters they saw as having the least audience appeal in order to make room in the budget for her. I do remember someone in the TPTB circle making a comment about fans not understanding or being interested in the 'realities' of these decisions, and in the context that I read it, I assumed they were talking about budget.

I think Carter would be an interesting addition, as long as she doesn't interfere in the dynamics already in place between the other characters. I mean, I know she'll change them, some, but I'd hate to see a lot of Rodney mooning over her, for instance. Not that a little jealousy from John might not be fun. *eg* Watching her interact with Teyla and Ronon could be interesting; she has so much experience in successful working relationships with non-Terrans, appreciating what they can bring to the table--wouldn't it be great if she relied heavily on them, as they deserve?

I must admit that I'm not a huge fan of Weir, and haven't been since they changed actresses--I much preferred JS's version and think she would have brought a lot more interesting tension to the role. I do feel bad for those who will miss her, though.

[tielan]

The finances thing might be a reason for the cut-downs. I don't know how that fits in with a rumour I heard that AT was optioned for S11 of SG1, or a season in Atlantis - I have no idea how TV show budgets work.

And, yes, I'm hoping for some good Teyla/Sam, Ronon/Sam interaction. (And Shep/Sam...really, anything except Rodney/Sam, which has been done to death.) Apparently there's an episode about Ronon which features at least one scene where Ronon and Sam are talking the situation over.

[raisintorte.livejournal.com]

I'm a Weir fan and a Carter fan. I'll still be watching. I think it's going to be interesting to see how they integrate Sam into Atlantis and I think it will add a new dynamic.

I'm interested to see how Sam and John relate with the chain of Command - and where Caldwell will fit in. He might be able to brow beat John and Elizabeth, but I don't think he would try the same stuff with Sam. I would love to see them go toe to toe.

Personally, I'm rather easy to please with TV. I honestly can't think of one character on any TV show that if they died or left I would stop watching. But that's just me, I know a lot of people feel very differently.

(I really hope this is coherent, it's 3am here. Sorry if it's not.)

[tielan]

Quite coherent. :)

I've drifted out of shows before - I was on the verge of drifting out of Atlantis when they announced S4 and story arcs for Teyla. At which point I went, "Oh, bother. Guess I have to stick around for this."

I'm still half-meh about the whole "things they could have done and didn't do, and things they're just not gonna do and which I really wanna see" situation. But reserving judgement.

[ryf.livejournal.com]

I'll second all this. More Carter sounds fine to me :)

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

*hugs back* I don't like it one bit. :( I probably won't be watching season 4 aside from the Elizabeth eps. I really only got into SGA for Elizabeth, although I quite like Teyla too. And I don't like SG1 much, the original team seems very caricatured to me. I usually only watch the eps with Vala and Cam, and where I have it on good authority that they're good. I want my Lizzie back!

[tielan]

*pets*

See, I've always liked "the team", although I have my favourite characters - the character that draws me into writing and being involved in fandom.

And, as someone else pointed out below, if an S5 goes ahead, there's no reason why Torri might not be back as a regular. Granted, this is looking a little far ahead for most, but without support for S4, there'll certainly be no S5.

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

I wasn't happy with the change from Weir to Sam, but I've gotten used to the idea, and I'm pretty cool with changes. I'm a soaps girl and soaps in America are notorious for stuff like this. Yes, SGA is not a soap, but it is still the tv genre and this is the norm and these things can and will happen.

I was slightly perturbed when it was confirmed she was out since I had hopes they were putting her in recurring so the writers can have a chance to re-evaluate the character and hopefully "fix" her inconsistent and shotty development. Unfortunately, they'd rather take her out and that upsets me, since I really had high hopes for all the females characters, in paticular Weir. I wouldn't have wasted so much time whinging about the character, if I didn't care about her portrayal or her ultimate success. In any event, what's done is done.

Logically speaking as I mentioned in my earlier post it is practical to bring Carter to expand the storyline of SGA and it's establish a new direction that seems to be teh goals of the producers and writers. I do feel that Weir and Carson should have maintained recurring status and should NEVER had been regs. The 4-team dynamic gives us a chance to understand the characters and not deal with too many characters and falling or missing storyline and depth because of the battle of "character representation."

All in all, I'm good with the changes despite my misgivings very early on. Further more, these changes are not new. Every seasons SGA kills or gets rid of a few well knwon characters. So far all the changes have been for the best and I can't make any complaints about them if Ronon is any change to take into consideration. So I'm hopeful that these will be the same. Plus the great spoilers I'm hearing are keeping me very excited about SGA.

On one last note, we still don't know if this was a TPTB decision or if TH made the request. My own speculation says this was a choice by TH, there are actors who want to do different things and want to get out of the show, and we haven't heard anything from TH on her stance. I think people should keep in mind that there are a could be a multitude of reasons why TH was let go or she left, we're aren't privy to that. And until then, people should refrain from attacking other fans if they show some favor for a paticular actor/character. The fandom is becoming polarized and hate is running rampant not because of anything TPTB has done, but because of the fans.

Shoot, I have my own bone to pic with the amount of attacks I've been under and others (paticularly some Carter fans) for expressing an opinion. Not to mention the countless attacks and derogatory comments to the producers/writers---added with name calling. I'm more than fed up with it. Over all I empthasize with them all, but only sympathaise with a few.

In summary, I'm for and supporting the changes, and as a storyline progression---militarizing SGA is a practical and realistic move by the producers/writers. Further more, I'm going to support the actors that are still there, because really 90% of the show is functioning; plus I like this new direction based on what I've heard.

[tielan]

we still don't know if this was a TPTB decision or if TH made the request.

Indeed. I mean, I hope it was Torri's decision, but either way, we don't know. And, thankfully, Torri hasn't been making any dire hints in her interviews - not that I've heard of anyway. One thing that disappointed me about Michael Shanks was his interviews through Season Six and Seven, and I've never felt the same way about him since.

But, yes. Until we know, it would be nice if people held off accusing anyone of collusion to kick Torri off the show.

[caladria.livejournal.com]

Personally I'll be hoping that they'll use Sam as they've used her in a lot of S9 and 10 - as a catalyst for other's development rather than as a star player herself (and the examples that are jumping to mind are the back half of S10, so I'll not mention them [and they're not necessarily big things either, I'll add]). At the start of S9 AT said how wonderful it was to be able to play Sam as a fully realised character.

And I'll agree with what someone else said about Atlantis now really being a front line and needing a soldier in charge - and with Sam they do get soldier/scientist.

But interactions I want to see?

Sam/John - I want to see her temper him a little and turn him into a better officer. And I know I may be playing with fire here, but imho, from the enormous amount of screentime he's had, he's had relatively little character development. He needs to be that little bit shrewder, and I think Sam, with her analytical mind, can guide him that way.

Sam/Rodney - Given that JM has said that they're not going to go down the adolescent crush thing (*does the happy dance*) I just want Sam to notice that he's changed. S3 Rodney is different to the Rodney of "Rising", andI couldn't tell you where it happened. So, imho, that's a job well done.

Sam/Teyla - I just think it would be nice to let Sam have a wibble at the start of the season about being in command of something that large for the first time, and have Teyla show her leadership abilities by being there and helping.

Sam/Ronan - I know the same interview that you quoted also had AT quoted as saying that Ronan would remind Sam of Teal'c, so it'd be really nice if she learned to trust Ronan's insight the way SG-1 trusts Teal'c. (which could lead to actually learning about Ronan and the rest of the galaxy... so quite possibly not going to happen)

And it could be worth pointing out that at the moment, AT has a year's contract and Weir has a recurring role. And AT has another project on the go. A possible S5 might not have the same lineup. (and its doing better than a show I used to watch, where by the end of S2 all but one of the regular and recurring characters had gone)

[tielan]

Given that JM has said that they're not going to go down the adolescent crush thing (*does the happy dance*)

Oh, thank heavens for that!

You've got a good point about John: the way he's shown, he reacts to stuff rather than thinking it through.

A possible S5 might not have the same lineup.

Again, that's something that a lot of people panicking aren't thinking about. SG1 S6 had no Daniel Jackson, and the show was good enough for that season that Sci-Fi renewed it for S7...and another 3 seasons thereafter.

Personally, I'd love to see Sam and Teyla kicking ass together, and Teyla helping Sam through some of the more tricky sections of dealing with the expedition - and the boys.

We'll see, I suppose.

[canlib.livejournal.com]

Well at leat this answers my question. I was half thinking that Carter would be a lead up to getting rid of Sheppard in season 5. I like Vancouver but you have to figure that being an American with young children and working in Canada is a hard balance fo JF to some extent.

My biggest trepidation out of this comes from the cancelation of SG1. I didn't like SG1 at all (the way they wrote O'Neill and Teal'c has always annoyed the crap out of me) and even the people I know who love both shows love them for very different reasons. Every once in a while I read something a writer or producer has said that makes me go "Um, you do know that there's 2 different shows, right?" So with more production staff coming over of SGA and now Carter being in charge... I really hope the show stays with its unique character.

[beanie-j.livejournal.com]

Well at leat this answers my question. I was half thinking that Carter would be a lead up to getting rid of Sheppard in season 5. I like Vancouver but you have to figure that being an American with young children and working in Canada is a hard balance fo JF to some extent.

I thought of that, but then John Sheppard's role in Atlantis is more than just the Military Commander...his ability to use the ATA gene makes him pretty indispensable. I guess all that balances on is whether Joe wants to stay on the show. *fingers crossed* Actors generally accept that they go where the work is - and to be honest, they film in 2 blocks of around 3-4 months on SGA - there are definitely shows that keep worse schedules.

[missyvortexdv.livejournal.com]

I'm not very happy with the news - especially since it's so hard to tell if they can adequately handle balancing Carter with the existing SGA characters like John and Rodney, and also not have her detract attention from the rest like Ronon and Teyla who barely get enough expansion already - but what can you do about it? Nothing really, despite what many fans would like to believe.

I'll keep watching because it'd have to get really bad (characters being unrecognisable to me) before I'd tune out and I still see S4 as potentially very good. Just hope they can manage to do something interesting with Elizabeth as a recurring, make this change a positive one overall.

I'm actually very curious how the Keller/Carter dynamic will work since both of them are newbies to their high position roles taken over from others and it'd be interesting to see if they get any interaction and furthermore if they bond over the shared burdens. I guess really I generally hope with more women on the show that TPTB might attempt female friendship with more enthusiasm and effort than they ever gave Weir and Teyla, though with the changes they might be able to include that too *is optimistic*.

[tielan]

Well, there's news that Teyla has some major storyarc this season. We'll see how that translates from 'interviews and spoilers' to 'on the screen'.

One thing that I've been forgetting, while caught up in everything else, is that Carter's going to be a recurring guest on the show - like Lorne, Caldwell, Zelenka, and Heitmeyer - not a main cast.

We're all basing our predictions on how Sam's been used in SG1, but Atlantis isn't SG1, and her previous times in Atlantis have been one-offs and, so, notable. As a regular guest, there's a distinct possibility that she'll be used differently to how she was in SG1 and previous SGA eps. Just a small possibility mind, but one nevertheless.

I guess really I generally hope with more women on the show that TPTB might attempt female friendship with more enthusiasm and effort than they ever gave Weir and Teyla, though with the changes they might be able to include that too *is optimistic*.

You're not the only one. However, TPTB's track record isn't good on this front. :-/

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

So, basically, stay away from GateWorld this weekend if we want our sanity?

I agree, I watch the show for the team interaction, not for one specific character. And while I think the TPTB are taking serious risks by playing the show's cast dynamics, I think Season Four is going to be one of the better seasons overall, just from the little things I've heard while running around on the 'Net. S4 is supposed to be a lot darker, which - to me, anyway - translates into slightly more character development and growth.

What I think would be really cool is if TPTB kept Weir on Atlantis, just demoted her and stuck her in with the social sciences for a year or so. Weir talked about stepping down during "First Strike" because she was pissed that the military always undermining his authority, so maybe she requested a year's leave, went back to Earth to calm down, and then came back to work in Atlantis in a different position. Having Weir still around while Carter's in charge would create some excellent interaction scenes between the team and Carter. But I doubt the TPTB are going in that direction.

I also agree that militarizing Atlantis is necessary, but I hope it doesn't stay that way and I hope Carter only sticks around for one season.

[tielan]

As a general rule, I advise staying away from GW if you want your sanity.

Sam and Elizabeth in Atlantis would be an interesting proposition, although I think that time and budget constraints wouldn't allow it. Would the expedition continue to look to Elizabeth, subtly undermining Sam's authority. And how would Sam take it?

Sadly, I wouldn't entrust this plotbunny to anyone. Not TPTB, not the fandom. There's far too much potential for Bitch!Sam or Bitch!Elizabeth, with no leavening from either side.

Here via SGA newsletter

[tex.livejournal.com]

If Sam is used in the same manner as Elizabeth ended up being used: the person sending them out, occasionally assisting in the Atlantis-based episodes, then I don't think I'll have too much of a problem with her.

The one thing that gives me hope that your take will be THE take is that AT has said that her schedule on SGA has her working only four days a week. So *crosses fingers* maybe that means that while she'll appear in 14 out of 20 episodes, SGA won't become the Sam Carter Show.

Re: Here via SGA newsletter

[tielan]

Oh, that's good to hear.

Although, while I had concerns about just how much Sam was going to be used in Atlantis, I never thought it would turn into "the Sam Carter Show". Carter was always going to be a guest star in Atlantis, never a main character.

I'd just rather see more about the base Atlantis characters.

[mausi.livejournal.com]

See, I watch the show mainly for the Atlantis team, so I'm a bit worried about the change in dynamics -- because it will change. And if it doesn't, it's isn't being written right.

I hope onto a teeny-tiny bit of hope that this could make the team grow closer -- because these are big changes for both John and Rodney and in turn, that effects Teyla and Ronon. Teyla, we know, had a relationship with Liz, so this will effect her, but--

On the other hand, this could result in some fantastic AU's where the team really bands together. Hmm.

[tielan]

I think there'll be a lot of AUs coming out after this news.

The way TPTB take the show and show the relationships certainly isn't how I would show them - but that's a personal, thing, I think. And, yes, I'd like to see the team band together in the face of a newcomer.

[spike21.livejournal.com]

yikes! I hadn't realized that Torri being cut back was actually Torri being cut *out*. That's saddening. Has anyone said why they got rid of Elizabeth?

[tielan]

Okay.

The news is that Torri has been set to a recurring cast member, and Elizabeth will no longer be leading Atlantis.

Robert C Cooper's interview confirmed that TH is recurring and is not likely to be back from a recurring cast member to a regular one. I don't know if TH is going to be cut out of the show entirely, but that's the spin her fans are putting on it.

There has been no word, either from TPTB or from Torri herself, as to whether she was "gotten rid of" or if she chose to reduce her time. People suspect that it's budget related, since Sci-Fi had Amanda Tapping optioned for another year, and possibly her salary was taken from Torri's and Paul M's.

An alternative possibility is that TPTB realised that they had too many characters running around on the show and so cut it back to the four on the team and guest stars: 'back to basics' as Joe Mallozzi was reported saying.

But this is all speculation and possibility. Season Four hasn't screened - most of it hasn't even been shot - and interviews, spoilers, and interpretation of statements made at GW is the fandom's main source of information.

[toasteronfire.livejournal.com]

I think what peeves me the most about this recent interview is the discussion about Carter and leadership. TPTB didn't want to give Carter leadership of SG1 during season nine because they wanted to "keep her as part of the team" or whatever. IMO, Carter was bumped to make way for Ben Browder and Tapping's pregnancy made it that much simpler to handwave away. Yes, I'll go as far as to say that TPTB simply wanted a male lead instead of Carter.

But now TPTB are all excited about finally giving Carter a leadership position, this time by removing Elizabeth. So they didn't want to put Carter in charge when they had a convenient male replacement, but they're peachy-keen about doing so when they swap one woman for another. Carter wasn't good enough to rank higher than BB, a franchise newbie, but now she apparently makes a great replacement for TH, a main character on Atlantis for 3 years. Something stinks here.

I hate the undertones of competition between the female character fans on Atlantis. First it was Weir vs. Teyla and now it's going to be Weir vs. Carter. Argh. :(

[tielan]

That's true. Someone else (not on this post) pointed out that the female characters are apparently interchangeable on Stargate. Which royally sucks, but this PTB have never been 'good with women' on the show anyway.

However, I'd maintain that Elizabeth was a main cast character, but she wasn't the main lead character - if you see my distinction. The lead character role is still filled by JF as Sheppard, with secondary lead filled by DH as McKay.

And yes, the female-character-fan-wars and the people promoting them should be sent on a one-way trip through a black hole. Why can't I like Sam and Teyla and Elizabeth all at once?

[ex-newbiethe679.livejournal.com]

Wait... why... how... wh... but... why? I mean... why?

It Sheppard and Elizabeth's home. I mean, I hated when Carson died, but he was dead, its not like he got kicked out of his home or given some sort of ultimatum to how he will be allowed to stay. I don't mind Carter, but I feel a little like bringing her into SGA will be a mistake that will cause all the ground they made in the development of the SGA characters to be lost because of it. I'm not sure I'll be able to handle that disappointment if it comes to that.

[tielan]

The 'why' of it probably has less to do with the story and more to do with budgetary and contractual constraints in the making of the show.

I'll be disappointed if they're going to make Atlantis about Sam, too. But I'm going to wait and watch and see, because I'm not a deity who knows exactly how everything's going to pan out, and throwing a hissy-fit right now is more effort than I have to spare.

[rhianona]

The more I hear about season 4, the more I wish I could go back in time and rewrite the series from the end of season 1. *sniffs*

It's not going to keep me from watching, but I'm disappointed. I don't have a problem with Sam, I just think they are making a huge mistake in making her the commander of Atlantis. I say they should rebel, kick her out and declare independence. *g*

I sound a lot harsher than I actually feel. I'm just angry at the fandom at the moment.