TV shows, female characters - basically the Tao of Tielan In Fandom

[tielan]

I feel extremely cynical regarding television shows right now. I'm not into slash, boylove, manlove, male friendship, or incest. I don't really have an interest in femmeslash, although I do like the female characters.

However, my interest in female characters tends to be limited to those who are physically kickass but emotionally grounded and competent (whether by explication or intimation): Teyla, Wonder Woman, Brennan. Okay, so Brennan's grounding isn't so much emotional as logical, but if she's not well-adjusted, she's stable.

This also goes a long way towards explaining my adoration of Faith Lehane - but only after she does her time in prison. Sure, she's still a loose cannon, but she's got her grounding; when Wesley questions her, challenges her in Salvage (Angel S4) she can act as she needs to, but she doesn't just react - she thinks through what she's learned and applies the emotional and psychological breaks. Of course, this is Faith - if she didn't run a leetle wild, I'd be disappointed.

I've been watching Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles and quite enjoying it, although I'd like it more if Cameron was a bit less of a terminator and a bit more socially on the ball. I haven't gotten to the John's love interest storyline (love interest?) so I haven't formed an opinion of her. And much as I love Sarah's kickassness, I'm not sure about her, possibly because she comes with the movie baggage. I've always thought of Sarah as walking on the fringe of sanity - how could you not after having your world turned upside down the way she did?

I've yet to see more of Sanctuary, but Ashley didn't make much of an impact in the episodes I've seen her in. I'd like her if they'd do something with her, but the focus seems mostly on Helen and Will.

Eureka is fun, but it doesn't really draw me in: I do love Jo (and Zane) and Allison, but... I don't know. Eureka is missing something - that one ingredient that would tip my balance and catapult me in.

And although I have a fondness for Kara Thrace, she's too much like pre-redemption Faith: a loose cannon. Maybe if Dee had been more present in the show (as far as I've watched), I wouldn't have fallen out of interest in BSG quite so fast. I don't know. At least with BSG, the plot writing is tight, even if they soap opera the characters all over the shop.

I think the reason I've stuck with Teyla so long is because she had all the possibilities of a woman, without needing to have the Earth-based hang-ups that stratify. There were intimations that she didn't follow the Earth-woman rules: showing skin but not being overtly sexual or even particularly sensual, assuming that she's good enough to play with the boys instead of questioning whether she was, leading her people in a less hierarchically-oriented way (as Elizabeth had to several times in the first season) and in more of a social/group/community manner.

I love the character and the possibility, and more than anything else, I think I'm disappointed that so few people out there saw this possibility, let alone exploited it in their stories.

Comments

[amilyn.livejournal.com]

Oh, I hear you.

I'm fine with Sarah walking the line of sanity, largely because I come into it with the same expectations from the movies, and just LOVE how Lena Headey is dealing with the role.

What you said about Brennan? OH YES. *love*

And it's all about the women for me, and so dealing with fandom is frustrating given the rampant misogyny (which is most upsetting to me coming from other female fans who INSIST that "the female characters just aren't as interesting/strong/consistent/etc. as the male characters" just on basis of plumbing rather than actual WATCHING). As a result, I try to do only in very controlled and limited ways by hanging out with the folks who love the female characters unabashedly and, in fact, prefer them since they can be seen as role models, friends, people we would hang out with (or run from, in some cases!).

I am VERY fond of Chicks with Guns, and smart smart chicks who take actions and have agency (and are very pale with dark hair and blue eyes, when I'm honest about the shallow part of my attraction) and make choices and live with them and make mistakes and face the consequences...women who are real and believable (in spite of the exasperating argument that "she's just a Mary Sue....").

I hear you SO much. *hugs*

[tielan]

LOVE how Lena Headey is dealing with the role.

Lena Headley is doing a great job with a very demanding role - it can't have been easy stepping into Linda Hamilton's shoes that way.

(and are very pale with dark hair and blue eyes, when I'm honest about the shallow part of my attraction)

See, I want to see more women of colour being kickass. I want to see the Teylas and Dees and Sha'res and Zoes and Marthas and Jos of the universe rise up. I'd love to have more Toshikos who can kick ass and wield a gun - and it's pretty sad that the only character I can off-hand think of from my racial type is a geek - women of Asian, African, Hispanic, Indian, Pacific Islander, Native American background who can find a solution and save the day.

My preference is always for the female characters, but on top of that it would be nice to believe that people like me are considered "worthy" of being shown on television, of being heroes, intelligent, clever, resourceful, strong, powerful, and capable.

Although, as a friend noted in conversation yesterday, even small steps towards an actual racial melange are better than no steps - because nobody's making the large steps.

[amilyn.livejournal.com]

ETA: Oh, as a note, Linda Hamilton has seen SCC or at least a bit of it and said it and Lena were excellent. She has totally graciously passed on the mantle to Lena and said that Sarah Connor is Lena's now. I thought that was classy. I also, as a total Terminator fan since the 80s, was HIGHLY dubious, and found myself, to my great surprise, seeing about 40 seconds of it, pointing to Lena and declaring, "That's Sarah Connor." She just NAILED the manner and the character, I felt. /ETA

And I see what you're saying. The type I'm describing is the type that looks like me. That is, perhaps not surprisingly, the type that I'm attracted to (which I think indicates a greater love for myself than I sometimes am aware) as well as the type I aspire to be like.

Having made that connection between my "type" and my own appearance is one of the things that helped me understand why it is important to have role models who look like oneself--role models for intelligence, for strength, for decisiveness, for raw power, for perseverence, for leadership, etc.--and not just role models who look like someone else, either by race, gender, appearance, etc.

I did see Empress Hoshi Sato in my head...but that moment of Total Awesome (totally awesome evil, of course...*sigh*) was largely negated by the whole Captain's Woman thing that was so annoying from the other Mirror universe stuff.

I agree that baby steps are better than no steps, but also that there need to be more than baby steps and that folks who can need to be more and more prodded to make larger and larger steps. I have no answers. There are just so FEW and that is so wrong (like you don't know that! duh!).

[zillah975]

I need to write more Teyla, because she is made of so much awesome. I think part of why I haven't reached a comfort level with her is because I don't tend to be drawn towards leader characters. I write followers, and sometimes second-in-commands, and love to explore how they relate to the people they follow, and Teyla has always, despite being a member of John's team and taking orders from him, been fundamentally a leader in her characterization and in the way Rachel plays her.

I've been turning over in my mind a sort of baby plot bunny that addresses that very thing -- a leader in the role of a follower, and how she approaches, feels about, and processes that. But my writing is weak these days, flat and uninspired, so I need to break through that before I even try to tackle Teyla in any deep way.

And much as I love Sarah's kickassness, I'm not sure about her, possibly because she comes with the movie baggage. I've always thought of Sarah as walking on the fringe of sanity

I wonder if that's part of the reason I haven't really been able to get hooked on SCC, even though I love the concept and LOVE Summer Glau. The thing I dug most about the one Terminator movie I really like (Terminator 2) was Sarah Connor being on that edge of sanity, about half-crazy but so kick-ass, so determined to protect her son, willing to do anything to keep him safe. I love that in a character -- it's the corollary to my follower/2nd in command thing, is the character who will do anything to protect and defend another. Not "the world" or anything big like that -- personal loyalty. It can be hugely problematic, but that's one of the things I love about it in fiction.

Ooh, I've kind of rambled on here. I hope that's okay! Your post kind of got me thinking. :)

[tielan]

I love it when people ramble at me. All kinds of interesting ideas.

The thing I love about Teyla is that she's a leader who can be a follower. I don't see the two roles as a dichotomy in her: she does the job that needs doing, but if there's someone else more suited for the job, she doesn't let her ego get in the way. (As John tends to do: like Harry Potter, he has a 'saving people' thing.)

I love that. I love that she'll take the initiative herself where it's necessary, but that she doesn't push it all the time. She doesn't have to be in the action; she's flexible, she's practical, it's not about her and her ego.

Given that both John and Rodney are very much 'LOOK AT MOIYE!' characters (Rodney consciously, John unconsciously), I love that Teyla (and Ronon with her) are the quieter side of the coin.

But my writing is weak these days, flat and uninspired

*hugs* I know how you feel. I've been meh about my writing lately.

[missyvortexdv.livejournal.com]

I get the impression based on the latter half of Sanctuary that either they'll be doing a lot with Ashley next season or not much, hard to tell at the moment.

[amilyn.livejournal.com]

Oh, I hear you.

I'm fine with Sarah walking the line of sanity, largely because I come into it with the same expectations from the movies, and just LOVE how Lena Headey is dealing with the role.

What you said about Brennan? OH YES. *love*

And it's all about the women for me, and so dealing with fandom is frustrating given the rampant misogyny (which is most upsetting to me coming from other female fans who INSIST that "the female characters just aren't as interesting/strong/consistent/etc. as the male characters" just on basis of plumbing rather than actual WATCHING). As a result, I try to do only in very controlled and limited ways by hanging out with the folks who love the female characters unabashedly and, in fact, prefer them since they can be seen as role models, friends, people we would hang out with (or run from, in some cases!).

I am VERY fond of Chicks with Guns, and smart smart chicks who take actions and have agency (and are very pale with dark hair and blue eyes, when I'm honest about the shallow part of my attraction) and make choices and live with them and make mistakes and face the consequences...women who are real and believable (in spite of the exasperating argument that "she's just a Mary Sue....").

I hear you SO much. *hugs*

[tielan]

LOVE how Lena Headey is dealing with the role.

Lena Headley is doing a great job with a very demanding role - it can't have been easy stepping into Linda Hamilton's shoes that way.

(and are very pale with dark hair and blue eyes, when I'm honest about the shallow part of my attraction)

See, I want to see more women of colour being kickass. I want to see the Teylas and Dees and Sha'res and Zoes and Marthas and Jos of the universe rise up. I'd love to have more Toshikos who can kick ass and wield a gun - and it's pretty sad that the only character I can off-hand think of from my racial type is a geek - women of Asian, African, Hispanic, Indian, Pacific Islander, Native American background who can find a solution and save the day.

My preference is always for the female characters, but on top of that it would be nice to believe that people like me are considered "worthy" of being shown on television, of being heroes, intelligent, clever, resourceful, strong, powerful, and capable.

Although, as a friend noted in conversation yesterday, even small steps towards an actual racial melange are better than no steps - because nobody's making the large steps.

[amilyn.livejournal.com]

ETA: Oh, as a note, Linda Hamilton has seen SCC or at least a bit of it and said it and Lena were excellent. She has totally graciously passed on the mantle to Lena and said that Sarah Connor is Lena's now. I thought that was classy. I also, as a total Terminator fan since the 80s, was HIGHLY dubious, and found myself, to my great surprise, seeing about 40 seconds of it, pointing to Lena and declaring, "That's Sarah Connor." She just NAILED the manner and the character, I felt. /ETA

And I see what you're saying. The type I'm describing is the type that looks like me. That is, perhaps not surprisingly, the type that I'm attracted to (which I think indicates a greater love for myself than I sometimes am aware) as well as the type I aspire to be like.

Having made that connection between my "type" and my own appearance is one of the things that helped me understand why it is important to have role models who look like oneself--role models for intelligence, for strength, for decisiveness, for raw power, for perseverence, for leadership, etc.--and not just role models who look like someone else, either by race, gender, appearance, etc.

I did see Empress Hoshi Sato in my head...but that moment of Total Awesome (totally awesome evil, of course...*sigh*) was largely negated by the whole Captain's Woman thing that was so annoying from the other Mirror universe stuff.

I agree that baby steps are better than no steps, but also that there need to be more than baby steps and that folks who can need to be more and more prodded to make larger and larger steps. I have no answers. There are just so FEW and that is so wrong (like you don't know that! duh!).

[zillah975]

I need to write more Teyla, because she is made of so much awesome. I think part of why I haven't reached a comfort level with her is because I don't tend to be drawn towards leader characters. I write followers, and sometimes second-in-commands, and love to explore how they relate to the people they follow, and Teyla has always, despite being a member of John's team and taking orders from him, been fundamentally a leader in her characterization and in the way Rachel plays her.

I've been turning over in my mind a sort of baby plot bunny that addresses that very thing -- a leader in the role of a follower, and how she approaches, feels about, and processes that. But my writing is weak these days, flat and uninspired, so I need to break through that before I even try to tackle Teyla in any deep way.

And much as I love Sarah's kickassness, I'm not sure about her, possibly because she comes with the movie baggage. I've always thought of Sarah as walking on the fringe of sanity

I wonder if that's part of the reason I haven't really been able to get hooked on SCC, even though I love the concept and LOVE Summer Glau. The thing I dug most about the one Terminator movie I really like (Terminator 2) was Sarah Connor being on that edge of sanity, about half-crazy but so kick-ass, so determined to protect her son, willing to do anything to keep him safe. I love that in a character -- it's the corollary to my follower/2nd in command thing, is the character who will do anything to protect and defend another. Not "the world" or anything big like that -- personal loyalty. It can be hugely problematic, but that's one of the things I love about it in fiction.

Ooh, I've kind of rambled on here. I hope that's okay! Your post kind of got me thinking. :)

[tielan]

I love it when people ramble at me. All kinds of interesting ideas.

The thing I love about Teyla is that she's a leader who can be a follower. I don't see the two roles as a dichotomy in her: she does the job that needs doing, but if there's someone else more suited for the job, she doesn't let her ego get in the way. (As John tends to do: like Harry Potter, he has a 'saving people' thing.)

I love that. I love that she'll take the initiative herself where it's necessary, but that she doesn't push it all the time. She doesn't have to be in the action; she's flexible, she's practical, it's not about her and her ego.

Given that both John and Rodney are very much 'LOOK AT MOIYE!' characters (Rodney consciously, John unconsciously), I love that Teyla (and Ronon with her) are the quieter side of the coin.

But my writing is weak these days, flat and uninspired

*hugs* I know how you feel. I've been meh about my writing lately.

[missyvortexdv.livejournal.com]

I get the impression based on the latter half of Sanctuary that either they'll be doing a lot with Ashley next season or not much, hard to tell at the moment.