3.05 - Progeny

[tielan]

So. I saw this episode four years ago. They did it better back then.

Next up! Replicator!Lizzie! Coming to an episode near you!

Oy. I really expected them to at least try the non-aggression thing first. (What can I say, I was hoping for a miracle of PTB writing...) Then, once that failed, then go for destroying the city.

And they really don't like the girls on SGA. Sam got a good deal on SG-1 because she was soldier-scientist (hence, blowing things up and technobabble - both of which the writers are good at), but sometimes it seems that the writers don't have the first or last clue about negotiation, diplomacy, or how to make war with words without then turning around and screwing everything up next moment, let alone cultural shock, being different without being homogenous, and avoiding technological polarity thinking.

*sigh*

I'm mildly pissed off. I preferred Unnatural Selection to Progeny - the plot was interesting the first time. Once they mentioned replicators in this episode, it was all over for me. Frighteningly predictable. GAH.

On the positive side, there were nice team moments, though. I like John and Rodney banter, and Rodney trying to be protective - and apologetic - was cute. Score for McKay/Weir! John and Ronon running around being protective in John's dream-of-escaping-to-Atlantis was cute, and the Elizabeth and Teyla angles came out well.

But the plot? Rehashed, pastiched over, far too familiar, and not-at-all well done in the context of the Atlantis characters. *grumps*

Anyone care to rewrite? It's a tempting thought.

Comments

[madjm.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I felt kind of meh about it myself. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't that interesting. Rodney was very protective of Weir ... but so was Teyla.

Can they not think of any new ideas for bad guys? :P

[tielan]

The team-ness was the primary redeeming feature.

Although saeva has pointed out that John's Destruction-Of-Atlantis was good and I agree.

Can they not think of any new ideas for bad guys? :P

Apparently not. :-/

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

All the bad guys get a handbook at the beginning of the season:

"Evil Plots for Dummies"

On page 44 it says:

You outline your plan for your hapless (yet resourceful) hostages and take them along with you while you attempt to carry out your nefarious plan. However, it should be noted that your hapless (yet resourceful and by the way, violent) hostages are always planning your demise. If you are lucky, you will be able to say, 'Curses, foiled again!' before you get blown out the airlock.

[saeva.livejournal.com]

You know, it's funny but what I think is bugging me most is that people seem to be accepting these things as replicators, when there's a clear mythology for the replicators and these are not part of that mythology.

The show could have gone that way, with a faction of Replicarter-nee-Fifth's army escaping and rebuilding in a galaxy safer for them and it would have given them more than adequate reason to wish destruction on Atlantis. But, it didn't, creating a similarly developed and designed race that none the less are not Replicators in any manner and thus lose all sympathy I had for them.

I mean, the Replicators were interesting because they really developed out of the sense of rejection and loneliness. Reese being rejected by her "father"'s people and creating toys as companions, then Fifth being rejected by Carter and creating Replicarter, who then completed the cycle by rejecting him and was ultimately betrayed by her "human" components and the fact she tried her luck against someone who knows Carter.

It's really an interesting evolution and the writers could have brought over the remnants to SGA and started a new cycle, but they didn't. Instead, they just made a pale imitation. How pathetic is that?

The one bright spot in the entire episode was John's hallucination scene which was, at least, well done.

- Andrea.

[tielan]

Yeah, that's the other issue I had: treating the...uh...Azzurans like Replicators when they might be essentially the same kind of being but have vastly different history. It would be like treating the Satedans as though they're the same people as the Athosians. WTF?

Lazy. Story shorthand, but no less lazy.

The one bright spot in the entire episode was John's hallucination scene which was, at least, well done

I kept telling myself, "It's all a dream. It's all a dream. Shit, what if it isn't?" I mean, there had to be something in there, but I wasn't totally convinced that it was either real or a dream.

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

I mean, the Replicators were interesting because they really developed out of the sense of rejection and loneliness. Reese being rejected by her "father"'s people and creating toys as companions, then Fifth being rejected by Carter and creating Replicarter, who then completed the cycle by rejecting him and was ultimately betrayed by her "human" components and the fact she tried her luck against someone who knows Carter.


The PTB already screwed things up when they had the Peg-Replicators all ready to go in for the kill the minute they figured out where Our Heroes were from. It was all downhill from there.

On one hand, yay team! On the other, they should have had something much stronger to follow "Sateda" last week. It was like the looked at the audience and said, "Look, we've got a great ep for you! Nope, take it back!"

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

Dude, I didn't even like "Unnatural Selection". The whole "The replicators look like us!" arc bugged me. Like you, I wish they'd at least *tried* the non-aggression first...this seems anti-gate, almost.

If this is the "new villain" we were promised, I won't be happy...

[tielan]

You know, I think they should have stuck with the Gennii. Maybe Robert Davi is busy filming other stuff, but they could introduce other Gennii characters - when Cowan died, surely other people flowed into the vacuum, not just Ladon.

The Gennii must have all manner of plots and sub-plots through Pegasus - but we haven't really seen the 'behind-the-scenes' manipulation since 'The Storm/The Eye'. And the advantage of a war with the Gennii would be that both are fighting the Wraith, both are military and scientific, both are stubborn as all hell, and if the Lanteans have the advantage in military power, the Gennii know their territory (Pegasus galaxy).

I can think of ways it could be done really awesomely.

Of course, history compels me to say that if it was being done on the show, it would probably suck.

[fugacious-love.livejournal.com]

Honestly, the rehashed plot bothered me, but I've always been a Replicator fan (as opposed to SG-1's new enemy, the Ori), so I'm okay with the Replicators being in the Pegasus Galaxy.

I definitely like the idea of the Ancients creating the Replicators, though. ^^ Evil 'gate makers.

Good team ep, though. And Liz came with them! That made me happy, as a major Weir fan, that she didn't stay on Atlantis wringing her hands in worry; she actually got to see some action. Heck, she got tortured with everybody else. ^^

[tielan]

Oh, I loved the replicator storyline. RepliCarter? Was the best Evil Girl that Stargate has ever seen. She rocked the casbar, and painted the universe red. But they worked up to RepliCarter from the teknik replicators to the humanoids and Fifth, to Fifth's obsession with Sam, to RepliCarter and her personal vendetta with the universe. Sam Carter on Evil Steroids. So much love.

But there were ways to introduce the replicators without so closely mimicking Unnatural Selection - a lot of other ways that they could have discovered the problem and then had to betray Niam.

Although if they bring in RepLizcator, then the show is seriously in trouble.

However, it was good to see Liz involved in what was going on.

Although that then prompts the question: who is minding Atlantis if Caldwell and the Daedelus are a week out, and why do the Wraith never attack while the Big Three are out of the city?

*exorcises the logic*

[fugacious-love.livejournal.com]

But there were ways to introduce the replicators without so closely mimicking Unnatural Selection - a lot of other ways that they could have discovered the problem and then had to betray Niam.

Definitely- and on a different note, I'm crossing my fingers that the writers bring back Niam, purely for the purpose of Niam/Liz, and then we can have RepliLiz. :D

I believe Atlantis was left in the not very capable hands of Carson, Radek, and Chuck. :) My real guess would be Lorne, though. I have no idea why, but I can see him being the fill-in leader.

[tielan]

I dunno. I'd rather Teyla got a stint at being the Evil Girl.

ReplicarTeyla or WraithQueen!Teyla would be extremely evil - and terrifying fun! Take away the trinium control, goad the pride into fury, eliminate all care for anyone but her 'own kind', and cower in fear, puny mortals!

*ahem*

I guess that if Liz is travelling down a dark road this season (as indicated by the choices she's making in the show), I don't see the point in creating a RepLizcator to mirror it.

Then again, I didn't see the point of imitating Unnatural Selection so closely either.

My personal suspicions regarding Atlantis is that they try to keep it in the hands of someone non-military as much as possible. That's a personal leaning, though - I didn't have issues with Teyla being left in charge of Atlantis during No Man's Land either.

But, yeah, Lorne was probably it. "Why do I get stuck babysitting the city while those guys run off and shoot everything in sight?" "Because you got to captain the Orion for an episode and you're not in the main credits." "Oh, right."

[fugacious-love.livejournal.com]

My hope for Repli-anyone is that there is none, because that would make me cry, if they ripped off SG-1 that badly.

To be slightly fangirlish: The exception, of course, is a RepliJohn. Two Johns. I'm not against it. :)

But RepliTeyla- it'd be fun to have her be evil. mwaha. ^^

WraithQueen!Teyla?? That would be... creepy? Scary? Awesome? I bet she'd eat Bates first.

"Why do I get stuck babysitting the city while those guys run off and shoot everything in sight?" "Because you got to captain the Orion for an episode and you're not in the main credits." "Oh, right."

I swear they're punishing him for the Orion being destroyed. Probably sent him on lots of boring off-world missions with Parrish as well.

[tielan]

Hmm...RepliJohn would be innnnteresting. Actually, I'd like to see an evil or amoral John Sheppard - the guy's got to keep his tarnish somewhere!

LOL at boring off-world missions with Parrish.

L: Hey, how come they have this complete stranger trying to interrogate McKay when he has an arrow in his ass? I was looking forward to that.
P: Actually, I heard that you got a black mark for losing the Orion.
L: I couldn't help that. It was the Wraith!
P: You were also shooting 4400 that week.
L: ...Oh, yeah. Right... *coughs*

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

ReplicarTeyla or WraithQueen!Teyla would be extremely evil - and terrifying fun! Take away the trinium control, goad the pride into fury, eliminate all care for anyone but her 'own kind', and cower in fear, puny mortals!

Oh, be still my beating heart!

WraithQueen!Teyla - still looks like our Teyla but she's secretly eating people and dumping them in the sea. Makes me wonder who she'd consider "her kind."

[tielan]

Hee. I thought that might do you in. *g*

WraithQueen!Teyla has plotbunnies bouncing around in my brain, and a village, and angst. I may have to write her someday soon...

[bellalarina.livejournal.com]

I so want to see this on the show now. Evil!Teyla and more about her wraith connections.

[million-moments.livejournal.com]

I think it somehow would have been better if they were SG-1's replicators...

And the whole blowing up the city thing really pissed me off as well. Considering they knew there were other replicators in there that wanted to be non-aggresive.

[cala-jane.livejournal.com]

And you know what even more annoying? It's not the first time. I'm not sure you remember SG1's 3x16 A Hundred Days... The main hero stranded on a planet, with no way to come home, meeting a woman who takes care of him... Ring any bells? Sure with that ep, the writers actually *tried* to make it look like something new...

[tielan]

Yeah, I remember that, too. They called it Epiphany in SGA.

It was the same way SG-1's solution in Fail Safe seriously resembled Rodney's solution in Inferno: flip the ship into a split-second hyperspace window to escape certain death.

*grr*

[cala-jane.livejournal.com]

At times like this I wonder why bother with two shows if they won't be original...

[miera-c.livejournal.com]

I would so much have preferred it if these guys had actually been descended from exiled Ancients who had evolved scary mind powers but were unable to reach ascension because of the evil scary stuff.

It's like despite the fact that week after week they show us yet another Ancient Royal Fuck-Up, the writers can't shake their "the Ancients are good and pure and noble" mentality. Despite the piles of evidence to the contrary.

They desperately need some new writers on these shows.