atlantis bitching

[tielan]

Yanno, I freely admit to being a bitch, having certain prejudicial opinions about fandom and fanbrats and all that.

But I'm really not liking the fandom 'players' in my preferred 'ship leanings. They're acting like teenaged twerps although I'm pretty sure some have children, and others claim to be over forty. Moral twerpitude, mayhaps?

Also, why is it that romance promptly causes a person's brain to dribble out their ears? Why can there be no stories featuring staid, sensible characters, who wouldn't make a declaration of love if their lives depended on it (and even then, perhaps only with a za'tarc machine in the wings)? The romance genre is about gushy, mushy twu wuv, but when we're talking about fanfic, it's also about keeping the twu wuv in character context.

I'm tempted - seriously tempted - to try write a fanfic for every ship and slash in the fandom featuring in character depictions of the characters. I want to be able to look at the stories I've written and the characters I've shown and be able to say, "Yep, that's the Sheppard/Weir/McKay/Teyla/Ford/Bates/Zelenka/Whoever from the show, and they're actually attracted to this other character!"

Of course, then comes the issue that I don't know if I could. I'd like to believe that I could write that many variations and keep them true to the characters on the show, but that might just be the ego speaking.

Oh yeah, and to certain persons in the fandom? Oy! You! Outta my fandom! You're making my pairing look bad!

Comments

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

...I really have no idea who in specific raised your ire but, wow, do I agree.

[tielan]

This rant has been bubbling for a while, partially fuelled by a lack of just about anything that I can read without wincing.

[verstehen.livejournal.com]

I think it helps, some, that SGA is such a narrow fandom in terms of what people read and write too. It reinforces the cliche.

[alliesings.livejournal.com]

Maybe you should start a "love =/= mush" ficathon, for every pairing in Atlantis. There is so much potential.

[tielan]

It's a thought. Or, I might just make a post and tell people to leave a comment based on what pairing they'd like to see written without the sap and mush and gratuitous musing over romantic songs.

[terrie01.livejournal.com]

Ergh, yeah, I know that of which you speak. And I totally don't get it. These are lovely, complex characters. Lets keep it that way.

[tielan]

Unfortunately, I find that 'lovely, complex characters' are difficult to write, and for many authors, it's often easier to go with the cliche characterisation.

[rivier.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm over forty and in the fandom, though I don't have children and I have no idea what a 'player' is. Can I still count myself in your list of twerps, plesae?

[mmmchelle.livejournal.com]

Personally, I know a lot of adults who tell the people they care about that they love them. There is a difference between a story which depicts two adults who care for one another and are emotionally initimate and one which depicts two adults acting like caricatures of 13-year-old girls. However, adults, in adult relationships, do, in fact, use the words 'I love you,' even if they're men.

Do you honestly believe that Elizabeth never told Simon she loved him? That Beckett, or John, or even Rodney never said those words to someone they cared for?

Beckett, canonically, tells his mother he loves her. Ford says it to his grandparents. Leads me to think that in a relationship they would say it to their respective lovers, too.

The immediate assumption that an expression of caring is something adults don't do puzzles me. Yes, I get that there is a negative reaction to some of the overly emotional, overly sentimental fic out there, but to paint all expressions of emotion with the same brush seems to me to be incredibly short sighted.

[tielan]

The romance genre is about gushy, mushy twu wuv, but when we're talking about fanfic, it's also about keeping the twu wuv in character context.

The bolded section indicates the focus of my ire.

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

I think that this is an issue of build-up. Let's take the term 'lover'. That word could be used at the end of a 20K word story and the build up would make it feel like the characters really did mean the word, but in a 200 word story, the reader has to assume all the build up that went before it. It can be very frustrating, to keep reading stories that take short cuts when you want something deeper.

[tielan]

I'm in agreement that it's at least partially an issue of build-up.

It's also a question of characterisation. The writers who have two people (any two main characters from the Stargate universe) making passionate declarations of undying love, or thinking excessively mushy thoughts, are watching a very different show to me.

Incidentally, did someone link to the post above? Because I've received comments from people who probably wouldn't otherwise give me the time of day and up until now didn't know I even existed.

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

See, I take a different tack at characterization: I don't think any specific behavior is inherently OOC for anyone. I do think that many behaviors for specific character would require build-up, but I have read many a story by a really good author where a character does something that is normally considered OOC, but within the story I bought it. So to me, it's really a matter of expertise and how skilled the writer is and my own personal perferences (is this an easy sell to me? is it a tough one?) at doing the work than it is one of 'that character would just never do this.'

Let's take Rodeny crying for example. There is a moment in runner where if Rodney had started crying, it would have been a completely reasonable reaction given how stressed he was and the fact that he had just tipped over his emotional teacup and was this close to being completely unable fo cope. Now, because I saw that moment and went there, that means that Rodney crying is going to be an easier sell to me than it would be to someone that didn't put that spin on that one particular moment. And if I wrote something that went there, some people would freak over it as OOC -- but to me, it wouldn't be, it would be an extension of canon.

So maybe you're right. We are watching different shows. And there's something really cool about it.

[tielan]

My beef is that the behavior that I label out-of-character occurs in situations that aren't much beyond what we see happening on the show. They tend to lack lead-in, background, and basis.

However, all things being equal (and when it comes to fanfic, there are few people who are willing to take the time to lead the audience in extrapolation) I still consider the less-likely behaviors 'out of character'.

ps. I haven't yet had a chance to see 'Runner', so cannot comment.

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

Oh, then, I'm sorry for bringing the ep into it! It was something still fresh in my mind, but at least there are no specific spoiler-ish things there.

[tielan]

Eh. S'okay. Will keep an eye on Rodney for the duration of the ep when I do! :)

[aithine]

It just got linked here. (Someone's apparently skimming friends lists of various SGA communities to get links every week after a new ep shows.)

[tielan]

Ah. Thank you. I was wondering why all these people suddenly turned up to comment on what was previously a very quiet journal.

[miera-c.livejournal.com]

ain't fandom grand? *sigh*

I'm tempted - seriously tempted - to try write a fanfic for every ship and slash in the fandom featuring in character depictions of the characters.

hee. That's becoming my mission in life. You should join in! To hell with the OTP, I say! Everybody/everybody! *g*

(haven't had a chance to read all the Weir ficathon stuff, but it's on my to do list.)

[tielan]

I haven't had a chance to read many of them myself - too busy trying to finish off my second assignment.

[aithine]

Moral twerpitude, mayhaps?

Snicker. *bg*

Oy! You! Outta my fandom! You're making my pairing look bad!

LOL Yeah, I frequently feel the desire to say that to the idiots writing mushy sappy crap that has nearly 40 year old men acting like teenagers with their first crush. Damn it, I like the characters because they're grown up men, not boys, no matter how emotionally repressed they may be (in John's case--not so much in Rodney's *g*).

Also, why is it that romance promptly causes a person's brain to dribble out their ears?

You know, I think you've hit upon my biggest pet peeve ever, in fic and in real life. Nothing irks me more than when a friend gets involved with someone who expects her not to have a brain now that she's dating him/her and not to have anything to do with any of her friends, etc. Just because you love someone does not mean you are incomplete and incapable of being a whole, intelligent, active person without them! Grrrrr!

I know I've been terrible and haven't commented (yet) on your stories, but I've really been enjoying them. :) ::waves hi::

[tielan]

Damn it, I like the characters because they're grown up men, not boys, no matter how emotionally repressed they may be (in John's case--not so much in Rodney's *g*).

Oh, I dunno. I think Rodney represses his emotions in a different way. He covers his feelings with a glib and snarky comment. And we love him for it.

[aithine]

Oh, I agree to a certain extent, but you can usually see all the emotions he's experiencing cross his face--he's considerably less able to control that than John is. *g*

[tielan]

Point. I differentiate between emotions that are displayed in facial expression and emotions that are vocally expressed.

[flatlanddan.livejournal.com]

Have you ever been in love? Staid and sensible don't enter into it. Brain dribbling often does. I would never expect a person to act the same way when they're in love. When you think about it, it's a very radical change in a persons life.

And I havn't even started on the number of times people these days say I love you and, really, they don't know if they're in love or in lust. The words no longer have the same meening they once did.

[tielan]

I differentiate between 'being in love with someone' and 'loving someone'. The two may be the same, but often aren't, and I usually class the first as attraction and 'chemistry' (or what most people consider chemistry).

The characters in both Stargate shows are human, they have feelings, they love and desire and show emotion; but I wouldn't expect it to change what they do and who they are, Tom Cruise notwithstanding.

Jack O'Neill mooning around after anyone (either Sam or Daniel) is among the worst kind of idiocy in fic. A kind of character rape. So, too, is John Sheppard deeply admiring Rodney McKay's beautiful blue (or Elizabeth's green/Teyla's brown/X's [insert color here]) eyes while on a mission or in a briefing (just to take a stereotypical example from SGA).

I'm neither against Romance as a genre (although I think the genre open to horrendous abuse) nor against characters falling in love or loving each other. What I am against is the depiction of a character whose previous expression of emotion consisted of range A-to-E, suddenly being depicted at point X-Z without any reason other than the trite excuse that, "He/she/it is in love."

Ergo, ' romance promptly causes a person's brain to dribble out their ears'.

More correctly: Romance fic seems to require the character's brain dribble out the ears the instant he/she/it is imagined or depicted as 'in love'.

For some people in love, perhaps that's what love does to them.

For any of the SG-1 or Atlantis crew? They live and love and fight, yes; but fall mushily, gushily head-over-heels in love and start acting like the fans of moral twerpitude? No.