saw Infinity War [spoilers beneath the cut]

[tielan]

And I'm impressed...

I was expecting the ending with Thanos triumphant, although everyone refusing to be even the vaguest bit utilitarian (and both Quill and Wanda finding their gumption but too late) kind of annoyed me. I am that person who would kill someone I loved to save the universe. But I acknowledge that I am not like most people.

Of course, once Thanos did his thing, I was hoping against hope that Maria would survive the post-credits scene - if only so there'd be the possibility of her in Avengers 4. Yeah, no luck there. Also, that scene was put forward as something for Captain Marvel, and I was looking forward to having Maria back. *sulks*

Otherwise...quite a few things I saw in the trailers weren't in the movie - was that just me? I wasn't expecting Team Steve and Team Tony quite so, uh, starkly, but that's where they went. Also, they spent absolutely no time on any of the relationships except Quill/Gamora and Wanda/Vision, and that was mostly because both Gamora and Vision were the sacrifice characters. Steve and Bucky hug, Natasha and Bruce have an awkward reunion (which Sam hangs a lampshade on) but that's about it.

The fanfic engines are revving right now (not just mine, but, really, everyone's) because there's two years to fill in between CW and IW, so all kinds of possibility. And a lot of dead air, because, really, there's just about zero dynamic change between Steve, Nat, Sam, and Wanda, compared to the start of CW. Nobody behaved loverlike, or, really, anything more than friends and colleagues. Honestly, the best 'shippy' moment for me was Strange giving up the Time-gem for Tony's life. Or Tony/Pepper.

And, TBH, that's probably a large part of why I enjoyed it.

In discussion with morbane, she's pointed out that the vanished characters will probably form a significant part of the next film, because they're part of the "reason" that the characters Left Behind are fighting Thanos. So, that's hopeful?

I am slightly annoyed by the complete lack of Valkyrie (although at least she wasn't shown dead...I think?). Okoye's presence was definitely a balm - I love the dynamic between her and T'Challa. For me, it echoes the dynamic between Nat and Steve - that droll vibe that's not quite sibling-ish but is pretty darned close.

Speaking of which Avengers: Left Behind is my new name for either this movie or the next one.

I have more things to think about and comment about, but I don't have a lot of brain right now. If you want to discuss spoilers in the comments, then I don't mind at all. I'd love to have conversations with people about different angles.

Also: when's Captain Marvel actually due to come out?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a Nick POV section to write for sharp Evening stars and bright Morning flame (the sedoretu series).

Comments

[kore]

Some big plot holes -- why doesn't Heimdall send either Thor or Loki away, to break the hostage situation? Why INDEED doesn't Thor chop off Thanos's arm? WHERE IS WAKANDA'S AIR SUPPORT? Is it all supposed to have been blown up in BP? If so, that was some pretty tiny air support.

But even then, R1 certainly had plot holes, and its catharsis works. Emotionally, thematically, character-wise. I think a giant and obvious problem this movie has is it's just too stuffed. It has all the virtues (your faves in one fight! zany team-ups! big stakes!) and flaws (poor to no characterization, bad plotting, reset button) of big comic book events. People have been saying MCU has turned into a giant TV serial, but really the team movies are more like onscreen comics. Altho that's unfair to comics, because they managed to come up with stuff like The Confession in the original Civil War, whereas MCU CW gave us an unconvincing and apparently hastily-done brief VO thing.

I do keep thinking maybe we'll get Maria in the next movie, along with Fury? Maybe?

[tielan]

I do keep thinking maybe we'll get Maria in the next movie, along with Fury? Maybe?

I'm highly cynical about this. Unless all the people who were smoked have been sent to a kind of parallel reality and are working together to get out of there (which, I admit would be a very cool), then the chances of her being anything more than one or two lines in the movie are miniscule.

There's too many other emotional arcs that they'd follow up first: all the "beloved dead" reunions - from Steve/Bucky to Rocket/Groot, Peter/Tony, and so on - to go through before they ever got to anything more than Maria delivering a line or two.

(And honestly, I'm tired of Maria delivering a line or two. If I had five dollars every time someone said "well, she appears in my fic" then I'd have close to a thousand dollars by now. Because that's the only thing she ever does in 99% of stories - appear! They give her one line and she walks off. There's no friendship, no emotional significance to her - and, really, as a fan, why would I want to read fic about that? Do they really think I'm that stupid that I can't see they're throwing me a bone while feasting on roast pork?)

[kore]

Unless all the people who were smoked have been sent to a kind of parallel reality and are working together to get out of there (which, I admit would be a very cool)

Damn, I wish someone would write that fic. Maybe they're all in that orange place (The Soul Planet?) with bb Gamora?

[tielan]

I've seen someone write it, but it was...not the best execution.

[kore]

ALREADY??

man I better start working on my Good Ship Asgardia utter fluff fast or six other people will have written it

[tielan]

At least I'm pretty sure that nobody will be writing anything Maria/Steve oriented from IW before I do. (Oh, wait, I already have.)

On the other hand, nobody else will be writing anything Maria/Steve oriented from IW at all. Definitely a down side.

[rmc28]

I do like that idea actually. I'm completely not sure I have the capacity or capability of writing it, mind, but I like it and will let it sit at the back of my head *brewing*.

[weaselett]

The whole gauntlet scene, almost defeating Thanos only Peter's emotions make them fail! Why are Maria and Fury apparently not aware of what's happening in Wakanda until like, an hour later? (sooooo many plots holes)

[kore]

almost defeating Thanos only Peter's emotions make them fail!

YEAH, THAT

more like Infinity Manpain if you ask me

[weaselett]

It is exactly Infinity Manpain - I mean we got Thanos weeping over his choices, Peter being dumb because of his manpain, Tony's manpain, Steve's manpain....Hulk's manpain and Thor's manpain (and a large dwarf's manpain, which was semi fair I guess)

*face palm* (With bonus!redskull no one really wanted to see again thank you)

[kore]

It's not even Red Skull, it's like someone impersonating Hugo Weaving! Did they not want to pay him enough? Or maybe he was just sick of it.

This movie was so not for me at all, I mean I'm still stuck fifty miles behind everyone back at the DID YOU JUST FUCKING KILL IDRIS ELBA YOU FUCKS signpost.

[weaselett]

ZOMG THAT - I ALMOST, ALMOST SQUEALED IT WAS SO EARLY ON, LIKE THE WORST COLD OPEN (it would only have been worse if we'd been shown dead Val.....)

PEOPLE IDRIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE THE NEW BILLY AND DIE IN ALL HIS MOVIES

(I have a list of characters I want back, and the characters I hope don't come back, but I'm sure will be because the crazy girl fan girls will make war if they don't return)

[kore]

ZOMG THAT - I ALMOST, ALMOST SQUEALED IT WAS SO EARLY ON, LIKE THE WORST COLD OPEN (it would only have been worse if we'd been shown dead Val.....)

OH MY GOD DON'T EVEN MENTION THAT PLEASE NO. Val met up with Sif somehow and they're leading all the Asgardians to Oklahoma. Or somewhere safe.

[weaselett]

YES ALL THE AWESOME ASGARDIAN WOMEN WERE DONE WITH THE MANPAIN AND ARE ON HOLIDAY SOMEWHERE NICE leaving all the men to the drama and world ending in some bubble jane made. or something.

[kore]

*BANGS GAVEL* HEADCANON ACCEPTED AS THE KIDS SAY

[kore]

....I got it, Sif shows up WITH Jane in the bubble space ship time whatever thing, they rescue Val and the Asgardians and off they all go

[weaselett]

*nods* yes exactly.

There are after all, only so many 'hold my beer' take downs women can do before they just get tired of beating the boys ;)

[kore]

And it sounds like the women who had more than two lines were All About the Menz (Pepper, Wanda, Gamora). And of course the all-women superhero team could only take down one female supervillain because GURLZ, amirite?

[weaselett]

YES DAMNIT (like there was a half arsed mirror of relationships with Wanda/Vision & Gamora/Peter, but ulitmately the men had the power and it was about them and URGH)

but hey it's the same as there was a load of people pointing out that the general population would actually make some effort instead of screaming, but like we are totally just all holding on for a hero.

THE WORLD IS ALL GIRLS FIGHTING ONLY GIRLS, THERE WAS A MEMO and making bitchy comments while doing so. Because. GURLZ.

[tielan]

Making comments that men interpret as bitchy, but which other women know are just venting because WELL WE'RE TRYING TO SAVE THE FREAKING UNIVERSE.

[rmc28]

Pepper barely had two lines, and they were all shit.

I want Pepper from IM3. I want Extremis!Pepper and Rescue!Pepper, and some idea that someone with her competence and lengthy time knowing Tony would not expect him to give up trying to save the world, and NAG him if he did so.

(Like, she could be conflicted about it. She could be encouraging him to be the Mechanic and not the Iron Man. She could be trying to find ways for him to direct his saviour instincts more usefully. But there's no way that BY NOW she has any illusions about him and his motivations and likely actions in any scenario.)

[kore]

Yeah, like someone else said, at this point in the MCU it's kind of a dead relationship because neither of them are going to change. Tony is not going to stop rushing off to try to save the world because He Has To, and at this point they haven't given Pepper any motivation beyond "but I have to run this company and have a normal life and I want you to want that too." It's not even really dependent on who they are as people -- it's just a very tired "man-woman" cliched dynamic.

[tielan]

UGH THE CLICHE.

I could more believably see Pepper telling Tony: "I love you. And if you don't come back in one piece, I will gut you."

Which then could have fed into Tony getting back to Earth, realising that Pepper's one of the casualties, and desperately vocalising (to Rhodey) that he wishes she was here to gut him...