interesting spoilers for S5

[tielan]

I actually had a second half to my post yesterday, but was a dingbat and forgot that my usual separator actually heralds the end of a post.

As it turned out, JM answered most of my issues in both the mails and on his blog. Thank you, Joe!

Still, I'm posting it here, because it had some thoughts on the female characters of the show and how they're used.

My main concern in all this is that Teyla's time will again be cut as per Season 3, with TPTB's "responsibility to give Rachel a storyline" considered done and executed in Season 4 with the missing Athosians and the baby storyline. Thank you very much, Rachel/Teyla, please return to bay A where we will consign you to character oblivion.

Truly, though, if Alison Porter turns out to be a recurring character as are Lorne and Zelenka, or as was Caldwell or Cadman, then I have no issue with the character.

But yes, I am deeply suspicious of the specifically orchestrated introduction of a 'can do' military person from Earth at a time when Teyla's role in the Atlantis expedition is perceived to be up in the air. It doesn't help that TPTB have, to date, never been able to significantly carry a storyline for a female character who isn't a) military, b) scientific, c) maternal, d) comedic.

Sam is the only unmitigated success of a female character in Stargate, and even her 'personal storyline' required serious mind-bending to get the brain around.

Janet's main storyline beyond the SGC was maternal; Elizabeth was ineffectual as a leader up against the protagonist character and ill-used as a negotiator; Vala was mostly comedy and cleavage.

Teyla hasn't been effectively used as the jack-of-all-trades that she's been shown to be in various episodes, and when TPTB finally pick up on her storyline, it's more about her being alien and "not of Atlantis" (which is precisely where the fandom wants to keep her: completely out of Atlantis) than it is about her place and role in Atlantis. Even Ronon's storylines have focused more on contrasting his life before and his life since, his people before and his people now - with emphasis on the now and the fact that he belongs in the city with the expedition.

And now they want to bring in another female character? And with such fanfare and announcement?

Yes, I'm suspicious. What the hell do you expect, TPTB?

The cynical side of me says that the fandom will welcome Porter with open arms as long as one of two things happens: a) she turns up to become a love-interest for Rodney, b) she doesn't show a romantic interest in Sheppard. Essentially, as long as she's not a threat to their ship, or falls in love with the character that she 'should' - according to fandom's dictates, of course - then Porter will be okay.

Heh. That would be interesting, actually. Rodney/Porter ship.

Good grief. I'm shipping a character that hasn't even yet arrived on the fricking show. Someone call the whitecoats to take me away, please!

*facepalm*

The other spoilers for the day are related to the casting spoilers heralded for S5.

So, Woolsey as Atlantis Base Commander?

My main issue with a non-military commander to Atlantis is that the city is essentially on a war-footing. So far, Woolsey has mostly been shown as a bureaucrat - while he might be a 'safe' or 'practical' choice as far as the three-letter-acronym-that-I-never-get-right goes, he's not exactly a good choice for an outpost that's regularly in trouble, under attack, or, you know, on the verge of catastrophe.

I am one of the (apparently) few people who was behind Carter coming to Atlantis a the commander. She had experience with the kinds of issues that Atlantis faces, she had the authority to rein in John. She had the technical knowledge to be able to not only listen to what needed to be done but to also offer her own suggestions. And I liked how she was introduced, how she was managed, and how she was developed.

And, yeah, given the manner of the announcement, I figure (or hope) that this Alison Porter character will be more like Lorne or Zelenka than a major character.

But definitely yay for no reduction of Teyla, the possibility of Jewel being a cast regular, and the return of Carson. We'll even get a few eps with Elizabeth (or RepliLiz or whatever she is)!

On the whole, I'm rather relieved.

So, yeah, announcement made, fandom goes kaplooey, we're fine, thanks, we're all fine here...how about you?

Incidnetally, I don't suppose people could have conversations/arguments/discussions about this on my LJ so I can at least watch, even if I can't participate? *looks hopeful*

Comments

[therisingmoon.livejournal.com]

i was starting to like carter as commander of the base. like you said, she had the experience and the knowledge on how to handle it. woolsey just seems...wrong for the position.

[tielan]

It's the lack of experience, I think. That and the fact that if Elizabeth as a civilian couldn't do that much against John and the threat of the Wraith, is Woolsey going to be any better?

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

I thought the idea of Carter as base commander made a lot of sense, and I've really enjoyed having her around.

Woolsey seems incredibly wrong, but you know, if they wanted someone who would bring a completely different dynamic to every day activities, he's it. I mean, think about Woolsey's awkward and fraught mishaps on Atlantis, and multiply times 24, or 22, or 13, or however many episodes.

Which, okay, my problem is that I...think I kind of don't want that on a regular basis? But. At least they're trying something new. Might actually turn out to be fun and interesting.

I'm v v glad Teyla is safe (which is to say, probably still underused but at least not going anywhere).

[tielan]

(which is to say, probably still underused but at least not going anywhere).

Apparently there is a little hope on the horizon. Youve probably seen the news that Rachel has turned up at Bridge to discuss her character's development for this year...

[rhianona]

huh... not too happy about Woolsey. It sounds like when they had Weir take over the SGC at the end of season 7 beginning of 8. It doesn't help that at least with Weir, we were told she was experienced. With Woolsey we know he's rather incompetent or at least willing to go where the wind blows. I'm really not happy about that.

Glad that Teyla won't be sidelined.

Got to say that I think your calculation on Porter is wrong - in that if Porter goes after Rodney, all the McShep fans are going to flip. Frankly, I don't need another round of it. We had enough this year with the katie plot line.

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

if Porter goes after Rodney, all the McShep fans are going to flip

Gotta say I agree fully there. :))

[raksha38.livejournal.com]

Got to say that I think your calculation on Porter is wrong - in that if Porter goes after Rodney, all the McShep fans are going to flip. Frankly, I don't need another round of it. We had enough this year with the katie plot line.

Oh yeah, I agree 100%. And it drives me batshit crazy.

[live-brave.livejournal.com]

I was reserving judgment on Carter until her first episodes actually aired, and I do like her in this position. Even if I hadn't I would have understood the need for a strong expedition leader on Atlantis (especially a military one). Woolsey I don't understand at all. I like the character and I think he has provided some great scenes, both comedically and as a sort of devil's advocate to the rest of the expedition, but I can't see him leading his way out of a wet paper bag. Mainly what I can see is the entire Atlantis contingent eating him alive (and, of course, all their enemies, perhaps in both a literal and figurative sense ;D ). *shrugs* Maybe I'm wrong. As with most decision TPTB make, I think this falls under the "I'll wait and see" category.

The Allison Porter thing will be interesting. Again we'll have to see if this is "good-interesting" or "bad-interesting"!

[tielan]

I can't see him leading his way out of a wet paper bag

This is my problem also. *winces*

What's been the main reactions so far?

[ticklie.livejournal.com]

I wonder what Woolsey would be like as a leader. Probably not too bad I guess, but I was really attached to the idea of a woman leading the expedition. Having a man in charge would break the symmetry of female-led Atlantis vs. queen-led bad guys. Not that it's important or anything.

I am relieved that Teyla's place isn't threatened by Cpt. Porter (sounds very similar to Cpt. Carter, doesn't it?). And it would be lovely to have her in a similar role to Zelenka and Lorne (although I will always yearn for the return of Cadman).

Can anybody tell me whether it's confirmed that Carson will be appearing in S5? *is currently living under a rock*

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

Carson's returning for five episodes, or so says TvSquad.com. I haven't checked on GW yet, but their information usually checks out.

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

The Woolsey-In-Command bit has me scratching my head, but I'll go with it. It'll definitely shake things up. I can't wait to see the IOA explain why they're replacing Sam with Woosley.

I hope S4 has made TPTB realize that they can do stuff with Teyla and that it really works well. If the baby lives and isn't evil, they'll have to write stuff for her. They can't just let that stuff drop now like they have in the past. *keeps being optimistic*

[tielan]

They can't just let that stuff drop now like they have in the past. *keeps being optimistic*

Hehe. I'm glad you can be. I'm being cautiously optimistic, myself... :)

[jeyla4ever.livejournal.com]

Yeah...Teyla is not recurring...woohooo yippeee!!! WhoaAAAA!!

What was your other comment again? *wink*

Yes, that Porter...I'm not sure about her role...I don't like Keller at all!

And well, Porter/Rodney???? Nope, I want Porter/Ronon and like you, I have even met the character yet! *wink*

[ticklie.livejournal.com]

Well, I, for one, ship Porter/John. It is obviously one true love.

We can has shipping war nao? ;)

[raksha38.livejournal.com]

Hm. I have mixed emotions overall, but on the whole I'm rather pleased.

I, too, worry that Teyla's screen time will be cut, even though she hasn't been reduced to a "recurring" role. I agree with you about most of fandom (and seemingly the PTB as well) wanting Teyla and Ronon on the periphery. And I just don't get it. It always seemed to me that the most interesting thing about Atlantis was its potential to completely break the SG-1 mold. I feel like the longer they've been in Pegasus, the more they should be integrating into the culture(s) there and the more the characters' internal allegiences should begin to shift away from Earth and toward Pegasus. But it seems TPTB just keep doing the opposite. Even John, of all frickin' people, is establishing ties on Earth. After "The Return part 2" I thought for sure there would be no way in hell John would ever go back to Earth a second time if a situation like that arose again, but now I'm actually not so sure. I'm bummed because I think some of the most amazing stories could have come from the various characters and the expedition as a whole having to realize that their Earth-based tactics, rules, priorities and many of their values just don't work in this context that is so radically different from Earth. If this had been the case, characters like Teyla and Ronon, sort of the go-betweens for the expedition and the rest of Pegasus, would have been crucial and totally front-and-center for this whole process of adjustment. Then, after a couple of seasons of awesome "going-native" stories, we could have had them reestablish contact with Earth and had a ton of great new stories about the shit storm of conflicts between the expedition and their SGC overlords!

But no. Instead, we get more and more ties to Earth all the time in all kinds of forms (from the personal like Rodney and John's reestablished family connections, to the physical like the gate bridge, to the meta like bringing in an SG1 cast member, and so on). As a result, characters like Teyla and Ronon get pushed to the side and become increasingly "Them" instead of increasingly "Us" like they should. And it's still Earth Über Alles all over the damn place. *sigh* I wish I wasn't such a sucky writer or I'd be writing a massive AU set after S1.

However, irritation at the Earth connections aside, so far I don't really have a problem with Woolsey becoming the new leader. I was reading over on TWoP (which I really shouldn't do, because they all frickin' hate the show and everybody except for, like, three people are rabid McSheppers) and someone mentioned how Wesley on Buffy and Angel was the most annoying character ever when he was first introduced as a minor recurring character, but after he became permanent he had this amazing character arc and became a wonderfully complex character. I'm hoping the same will happen with Woolsey. Regardless, I'm kind of excited about the prospect of a full-on power struggle throw down between Woolsey and John. There was a lot of potential for it in S1 between Sheppard and Weir, but I think ultimately they both liked and respected each other too much and both knew how precarious the physical safety of expedition was at the time for them to really get into it. This is not the case now, so it should be interesting to see what happens.

And I, too, am not really worried about this Capt. Porter person, as long as she's a recurring character like Zelenka or Lorne. I wonder, though, why we need a new person and can't just have Cadman back. We already know her and I liked her a lot.

On a completely random note: I need some SGA icons.

[ticklie.livejournal.com]

I feel like the longer they've been in Pegasus, the more they should be integrating into the culture(s) there and the more the characters' internal allegiences should begin to shift away from Earth and toward Pegasus.

From the popularity of the Retrograde universe and Written by the Victors, it would seem that fandom certainly enjoys exploring the idea of the expedition shifting their loyalties to their new home galaxy. Unfortunately, the writers of the show don't seem to agree.

We need our own Sheyla epic AU fic around this idea, dammit.

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

You'll like this, I think! JM just posted this in his blog today:

Rachel dropped by the production offices and we had a little chat about what’s in store for Teyla this year. She was not only happy but, admittedly, quite relieved with the creative route we’re taking.

[tielan]

Yes, I liked it. *smooches*

Thanks for posting, hon.

[cherryblosomjen.livejournal.com]

Hi Tielan!

I'm very jealous that you're in China right now. Hope it's awesome.

I should confess to being a lurker around here. Whenever I particularly enjoy an episode (or a string of episodes, as in the case with this season), I come here to see whay your thoughts were. As usual, they're quite insightful. :)

I was just talking to my boss about how reading the posts from you and a few others (particularly how you unpack the portrayals of race and gender) made me want to study Stargate from a cultural studies perspective. I'll probably never do it formally, but I can't help but do it every time I watch an episode now.

To comment on your post -- I'm very happy that Teyla will not be reduced. But, I'm sad Sam is leaving. I was really excited when she joined. I suspect it'll be fine though. I think I'd rather see Woosley than someone completely new. I don't think I ever got used to Beau Bridges's character leading SG command.

*Epiphany* You know who I'd love to see Atlantis (other than Daniel, which would probably happen) -- HAMMOND. I love him.

[therisingmoon.livejournal.com]

i was starting to like carter as commander of the base. like you said, she had the experience and the knowledge on how to handle it. woolsey just seems...wrong for the position.

[tielan]

It's the lack of experience, I think. That and the fact that if Elizabeth as a civilian couldn't do that much against John and the threat of the Wraith, is Woolsey going to be any better?

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

I thought the idea of Carter as base commander made a lot of sense, and I've really enjoyed having her around.

Woolsey seems incredibly wrong, but you know, if they wanted someone who would bring a completely different dynamic to every day activities, he's it. I mean, think about Woolsey's awkward and fraught mishaps on Atlantis, and multiply times 24, or 22, or 13, or however many episodes.

Which, okay, my problem is that I...think I kind of don't want that on a regular basis? But. At least they're trying something new. Might actually turn out to be fun and interesting.

I'm v v glad Teyla is safe (which is to say, probably still underused but at least not going anywhere).

[tielan]

(which is to say, probably still underused but at least not going anywhere).

Apparently there is a little hope on the horizon. Youve probably seen the news that Rachel has turned up at Bridge to discuss her character's development for this year...

[rhianona]

huh... not too happy about Woolsey. It sounds like when they had Weir take over the SGC at the end of season 7 beginning of 8. It doesn't help that at least with Weir, we were told she was experienced. With Woolsey we know he's rather incompetent or at least willing to go where the wind blows. I'm really not happy about that.

Glad that Teyla won't be sidelined.

Got to say that I think your calculation on Porter is wrong - in that if Porter goes after Rodney, all the McShep fans are going to flip. Frankly, I don't need another round of it. We had enough this year with the katie plot line.

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

if Porter goes after Rodney, all the McShep fans are going to flip

Gotta say I agree fully there. :))

[live-brave.livejournal.com]

I was reserving judgment on Carter until her first episodes actually aired, and I do like her in this position. Even if I hadn't I would have understood the need for a strong expedition leader on Atlantis (especially a military one). Woolsey I don't understand at all. I like the character and I think he has provided some great scenes, both comedically and as a sort of devil's advocate to the rest of the expedition, but I can't see him leading his way out of a wet paper bag. Mainly what I can see is the entire Atlantis contingent eating him alive (and, of course, all their enemies, perhaps in both a literal and figurative sense ;D ). *shrugs* Maybe I'm wrong. As with most decision TPTB make, I think this falls under the "I'll wait and see" category.

The Allison Porter thing will be interesting. Again we'll have to see if this is "good-interesting" or "bad-interesting"!

[tielan]

I can't see him leading his way out of a wet paper bag

This is my problem also. *winces*

What's been the main reactions so far?

[ticklie.livejournal.com]

I wonder what Woolsey would be like as a leader. Probably not too bad I guess, but I was really attached to the idea of a woman leading the expedition. Having a man in charge would break the symmetry of female-led Atlantis vs. queen-led bad guys. Not that it's important or anything.

I am relieved that Teyla's place isn't threatened by Cpt. Porter (sounds very similar to Cpt. Carter, doesn't it?). And it would be lovely to have her in a similar role to Zelenka and Lorne (although I will always yearn for the return of Cadman).

Can anybody tell me whether it's confirmed that Carson will be appearing in S5? *is currently living under a rock*

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

Carson's returning for five episodes, or so says TvSquad.com. I haven't checked on GW yet, but their information usually checks out.

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

The Woolsey-In-Command bit has me scratching my head, but I'll go with it. It'll definitely shake things up. I can't wait to see the IOA explain why they're replacing Sam with Woosley.

I hope S4 has made TPTB realize that they can do stuff with Teyla and that it really works well. If the baby lives and isn't evil, they'll have to write stuff for her. They can't just let that stuff drop now like they have in the past. *keeps being optimistic*

[tielan]

They can't just let that stuff drop now like they have in the past. *keeps being optimistic*

Hehe. I'm glad you can be. I'm being cautiously optimistic, myself... :)

[jeyla4ever.livejournal.com]

Yeah...Teyla is not recurring...woohooo yippeee!!! WhoaAAAA!!

What was your other comment again? *wink*

Yes, that Porter...I'm not sure about her role...I don't like Keller at all!

And well, Porter/Rodney???? Nope, I want Porter/Ronon and like you, I have even met the character yet! *wink*

[ticklie.livejournal.com]

Well, I, for one, ship Porter/John. It is obviously one true love.

We can has shipping war nao? ;)

[raksha38.livejournal.com]

Hm. I have mixed emotions overall, but on the whole I'm rather pleased.

I, too, worry that Teyla's screen time will be cut, even though she hasn't been reduced to a "recurring" role. I agree with you about most of fandom (and seemingly the PTB as well) wanting Teyla and Ronon on the periphery. And I just don't get it. It always seemed to me that the most interesting thing about Atlantis was its potential to completely break the SG-1 mold. I feel like the longer they've been in Pegasus, the more they should be integrating into the culture(s) there and the more the characters' internal allegiences should begin to shift away from Earth and toward Pegasus. But it seems TPTB just keep doing the opposite. Even John, of all frickin' people, is establishing ties on Earth. After "The Return part 2" I thought for sure there would be no way in hell John would ever go back to Earth a second time if a situation like that arose again, but now I'm actually not so sure. I'm bummed because I think some of the most amazing stories could have come from the various characters and the expedition as a whole having to realize that their Earth-based tactics, rules, priorities and many of their values just don't work in this context that is so radically different from Earth. If this had been the case, characters like Teyla and Ronon, sort of the go-betweens for the expedition and the rest of Pegasus, would have been crucial and totally front-and-center for this whole process of adjustment. Then, after a couple of seasons of awesome "going-native" stories, we could have had them reestablish contact with Earth and had a ton of great new stories about the shit storm of conflicts between the expedition and their SGC overlords!

But no. Instead, we get more and more ties to Earth all the time in all kinds of forms (from the personal like Rodney and John's reestablished family connections, to the physical like the gate bridge, to the meta like bringing in an SG1 cast member, and so on). As a result, characters like Teyla and Ronon get pushed to the side and become increasingly "Them" instead of increasingly "Us" like they should. And it's still Earth Über Alles all over the damn place. *sigh* I wish I wasn't such a sucky writer or I'd be writing a massive AU set after S1.

However, irritation at the Earth connections aside, so far I don't really have a problem with Woolsey becoming the new leader. I was reading over on TWoP (which I really shouldn't do, because they all frickin' hate the show and everybody except for, like, three people are rabid McSheppers) and someone mentioned how Wesley on Buffy and Angel was the most annoying character ever when he was first introduced as a minor recurring character, but after he became permanent he had this amazing character arc and became a wonderfully complex character. I'm hoping the same will happen with Woolsey. Regardless, I'm kind of excited about the prospect of a full-on power struggle throw down between Woolsey and John. There was a lot of potential for it in S1 between Sheppard and Weir, but I think ultimately they both liked and respected each other too much and both knew how precarious the physical safety of expedition was at the time for them to really get into it. This is not the case now, so it should be interesting to see what happens.

And I, too, am not really worried about this Capt. Porter person, as long as she's a recurring character like Zelenka or Lorne. I wonder, though, why we need a new person and can't just have Cadman back. We already know her and I liked her a lot.

On a completely random note: I need some SGA icons.

[ticklie.livejournal.com]

I feel like the longer they've been in Pegasus, the more they should be integrating into the culture(s) there and the more the characters' internal allegiences should begin to shift away from Earth and toward Pegasus.

From the popularity of the Retrograde universe and Written by the Victors, it would seem that fandom certainly enjoys exploring the idea of the expedition shifting their loyalties to their new home galaxy. Unfortunately, the writers of the show don't seem to agree.

We need our own Sheyla epic AU fic around this idea, dammit.

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

You'll like this, I think! JM just posted this in his blog today:

Rachel dropped by the production offices and we had a little chat about what’s in store for Teyla this year. She was not only happy but, admittedly, quite relieved with the creative route we’re taking.

[tielan]

Yes, I liked it. *smooches*

Thanks for posting, hon.

[cherryblosomjen.livejournal.com]

Hi Tielan!

I'm very jealous that you're in China right now. Hope it's awesome.

I should confess to being a lurker around here. Whenever I particularly enjoy an episode (or a string of episodes, as in the case with this season), I come here to see whay your thoughts were. As usual, they're quite insightful. :)

I was just talking to my boss about how reading the posts from you and a few others (particularly how you unpack the portrayals of race and gender) made me want to study Stargate from a cultural studies perspective. I'll probably never do it formally, but I can't help but do it every time I watch an episode now.

To comment on your post -- I'm very happy that Teyla will not be reduced. But, I'm sad Sam is leaving. I was really excited when she joined. I suspect it'll be fine though. I think I'd rather see Woosley than someone completely new. I don't think I ever got used to Beau Bridges's character leading SG command.

*Epiphany* You know who I'd love to see Atlantis (other than Daniel, which would probably happen) -- HAMMOND. I love him.