query: SGA ep "Irresponsible"

[tielan]

I know that a lot of people hated this ep. It's one of the eps I skipped and never bothered to catch up with (along with a handful of others at that time).

Actually, if you hated it, I'd like to hear from you: the whys and the wherefores of your dislike. I know the general premise and approximately what happens, and I'm not going to be psychotic on spoilers.

I'm interested in people's takes on the episode, but the main thing I want to know is...

I've seen people say that Kolya deserved a better death than he got. My understanding is mostly that somehow he found out Shep and co. were on the planet, tried a takeover, and Shep took Lucius Lavin's "in-vul-ner-a-ble" device and let Kolya have the first shot before he shot Kolya back.

The details might be wrong.

What would people have considered a "satisfactory ending" to the Kolya storyline (assuming that they had to end it)?

HALP?

Comments

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I thought he shot before Kolya...but I have blocked a lot of it from my memory.

Basically, in a Genii episode, I expect more backstabbing and double dealing and at least a quadruple cross. This just seemed too easy and...sort of a cop out.

Also, I hated Lucius.

[tielan]

Yes, well, Lucius was one of the things that pretty much turned me off the ep.

The Genii really had the potential to become a solid source of conflict early on; a pity they weren't considered "important" enough to set up as 'antagonistic allies'.

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

I never watched that ep either, though I've been intending to watch the ending ever since I got the DVDs.

My feeling is, I know I won't be happy with Kolya's death because to me it should have been something, like, epic. At LEAST one full episode of tangling with Kolya directly a la Common Ground, or possibly even a short multi-ep arc, in the manner of The Storm/The Eye. And then Sheppard could shoot him. But the lead-up should be more, a lot more, than what Irresponsible seems to have offered.

[tielan]

But the lead-up should be more, a lot more, than what Irresponsible seems to have offered.

Good point. And, yeah, something like The Storm/The Eye or Common Ground would have been good. I'd have suggested something more team-oriented, with the John vs. Kolya showdown at the end.

[rhianona]

As grav_ity indicated, Kolya's death seemed a cop out. Given how much he has done to Atlantis and John specifically, one would expect a better death for him. Hell, they gave Anubis and Apophis better deaths than Kolya got. There is some great Teyla/John moments btw, where she stops him from going out, guns blazing to kill the Genii when they show up and take the town hostage. Basically she tells him to use his head. They use Lucius to trap the team, John is the only on that gets away and then he goes to their rescue when Kolya threatens to kill one of the team (one of the few moments I liked is how everyone is willing to die for the other - one of the few real team bonding moments we see before season 4). so he goes back, taking the shield device from Lucius, who has also escaped and is trying to "help" John. John goes into the town square and is shot but the shield prevents him from being hurt. There is a long dramatic pause after the shield fails and Kolya and he go for their guns. John wins the draw and shoots. The end. No real long drawn out drama. My guess is they wanted to finish up the Kolya/renegade Genii plotline and figured this was the best way to do so; they may have also thought it would be nice to try and redeem Lucius, but it's hard to really make him a likeable character given his introduction.

Kolya's death just seemed a letdown after how much pain and drama he has caused the Atlantis team. I would have preferred something a bit more than what we got: a hostage situation that is over when the hero shoots the main bad guy in the last 60 seconds of the show.

[azure-horizon.livejournal.com]

I think after CG, John just wanted to get him to France.

I can't blame him for just shooting him.

[renisanz.livejournal.com]

vipersweb: My guess is they wanted to finish up the Kolya/renegade Genii plotline and figured this was the best way to do so.

I agree. While I don't hate the episode, I was like, "That's it?!" with the way John ended Kolya. However, I think the only good thing about the way it ended, was that it seemed that TPTB wanted there to be no question that Kolya was actually dead, therefore ending any likely speculation that he would come back eventually. I wish it could have been a lot less anticlimatic, though.

[tielan]

It seems that 'anticlimatic' is the opinion of most people regarding Kolya.

And, yeah, as kristen999 says below, they probably should have focused specifically on the Genii and left Lucius out of it entirely.

[kristen999.livejournal.com]

Not much to add. What really enraged me was to even involve Lucius, an annoying, stupid, 'comedic' element to a plotline that should have been %100 about Kolya and the Genii.

Why on Earth did they mix the two? Let's take Atlantis's biggest villains story lines and mix it with this 'funny' guy actor.

A big old mess. Yes, some scenes were decent and mentioned above, but the Team and Sheppard deserved to have a better build up to killing Kolya .

What a waste.

[tielan]

I think a lot of Season Three was wasted - partly because everyone was spread too thin over both SGA and SG1, and partly because they only reiterated the same old, same old of the previous seasons of both Stargate shows.

Replicators as the bad guys preying on the previously-introduced bad guys, explosive and technological solutions save the day every time, no reference to the Pegasus natives or any consequences that might come of Atlantis' interference, no sense of anything but Earth's almighty importance in the Grand Scheme Of Things.

[toasteronfire.livejournal.com]

For me it was a combination of the return of Lucius, an anticlimactic, cheesy Western-flick death for Kolya, and the oh-so-tired early European village set and costumes.

The mere presence of Lucius pretty much ruined the ep for me. I can't stand the character or the actor. I thought Kolya turned all bark and no bite post Storm/Eye and adding Lucius into the mix didn't help things. A more fitting end to Kolya would have been in an ep with far more serious and dangerous undertones.

[tielan]

I disagree that Kolya was all bark and no bite. What he did in Common Ground bit pretty hard.

But, yes, Kolya is the kind of bad guy you'd want to go out with a bang, not a whimper.

[friendshipper.livejournal.com]

I was never even that fond of Kolya as a character, but I hated the fact that the whole episode was played for laughs, with no real sense of menace or danger. (A problem I had in general with much of season 3.) I like the show's humorous element but not when it's so overwhelming that there's no tension -- especially when most of it wasn't even funny! Kolya went from being a menacing and fairly complex bad guy in Storm/Eye (he's not *evil*, just doing his job) to a cartoonish buffoon who died in a ludicrous parody of a Wild West shootout. Nowhere in the episode is there any feeling that the characters or the townspeople are really in danger.

I think I would have been much happier with it if they'd taken the exact same scenario and played it "straight" -- a revenge-obsessed baddie kidnapping Sheppard's little Atlantis "family" should be full of opportunities for worry and self-sacrifice and little bonding moments, but instead, most of what we got was jokes and the characters standing around looking bored, not to mention WAY too much Lucius, the most annoying guest star ever.

[tielan]

a revenge-obsessed baddie kidnapping Sheppard's little Atlantis "family" should be full of opportunities for worry and self-sacrifice and little bonding moments

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

One of my problems with Stargate's "funny" episodes is that they rely more on in-your-face slapstick than the subtler types of humour.

One of the "best" moments of humour I've seen in Atlantis is in a completely unfunny episode - Missing.

Teyla and Keller arrive on New Athos, and Teyla offers to take one of the two bags Jennifer is carrying. Jennifer says, "Oh, no, I packed it, I should carry it." In the next scene, Teyla's carrying both bags.

Oh, and the barbarian guys in the same episode, who are shot sucking on the lollipops Jennifer took to treat the Athosian kids. They didn't have to say a thing, but it was a great moment.

[live-brave.livejournal.com]

I can't say I hated it, but it was definitely not one of the best episodes they've churned out...probably somewhere near the bottom in fact. I felt that the two Lucius episodes came too close together. It might have been slightly better received if there had been some healing time after the first. :)

I'm not usually a nit-picker when it comes to continuity but there were a few points that struck even me as puzzling (like the fact that the personal shield allowed Lucius to eat and drink but it wouldn't allow Rodney to do the same). It's especially weird when the writers and directors realize that there's a problem with continuity and still let it go.

Also, as people have mentioned, the cheesy 'Shoot Out at the Atlantis Corral' ending for Kolya was a let-down. He's been one of their most persistent adversaries, and to see him go out like that...*shakes head sadly*. I have nothing against him being shot but the way it was done was too anti-climactic.

I did like that it was Sheppard that finally killed Kolya. As the Genii episodes went on, it seemed like Kolya had more of a vendetta against Sheppard than the people of Atlantis as a whole. It was fitting that the final fight was just between them.

[tielan]

It might have been slightly better received if there had been some healing time after the first. :)

I just laughed 'Irresistable' off. It didn't unduly bother me, it wasn't particularly fantastic...it wsa just something I had to get through to watch the rest of the season (for which I had high hopes at the time, the more fool I).

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

You know who doesn't get a wacky redemption arc?

The SERIAL RAPIST doesn't get a wacky redemption arc!

[tielan]

Yes, well..."Welcome to Stargate Atlantis."

*grimace*

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I thought he shot before Kolya...but I have blocked a lot of it from my memory.

Basically, in a Genii episode, I expect more backstabbing and double dealing and at least a quadruple cross. This just seemed too easy and...sort of a cop out.

Also, I hated Lucius.

[tielan]

Yes, well, Lucius was one of the things that pretty much turned me off the ep.

The Genii really had the potential to become a solid source of conflict early on; a pity they weren't considered "important" enough to set up as 'antagonistic allies'.

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

I never watched that ep either, though I've been intending to watch the ending ever since I got the DVDs.

My feeling is, I know I won't be happy with Kolya's death because to me it should have been something, like, epic. At LEAST one full episode of tangling with Kolya directly a la Common Ground, or possibly even a short multi-ep arc, in the manner of The Storm/The Eye. And then Sheppard could shoot him. But the lead-up should be more, a lot more, than what Irresponsible seems to have offered.

[tielan]

But the lead-up should be more, a lot more, than what Irresponsible seems to have offered.

Good point. And, yeah, something like The Storm/The Eye or Common Ground would have been good. I'd have suggested something more team-oriented, with the John vs. Kolya showdown at the end.

[rhianona]

As grav_ity indicated, Kolya's death seemed a cop out. Given how much he has done to Atlantis and John specifically, one would expect a better death for him. Hell, they gave Anubis and Apophis better deaths than Kolya got. There is some great Teyla/John moments btw, where she stops him from going out, guns blazing to kill the Genii when they show up and take the town hostage. Basically she tells him to use his head. They use Lucius to trap the team, John is the only on that gets away and then he goes to their rescue when Kolya threatens to kill one of the team (one of the few moments I liked is how everyone is willing to die for the other - one of the few real team bonding moments we see before season 4). so he goes back, taking the shield device from Lucius, who has also escaped and is trying to "help" John. John goes into the town square and is shot but the shield prevents him from being hurt. There is a long dramatic pause after the shield fails and Kolya and he go for their guns. John wins the draw and shoots. The end. No real long drawn out drama. My guess is they wanted to finish up the Kolya/renegade Genii plotline and figured this was the best way to do so; they may have also thought it would be nice to try and redeem Lucius, but it's hard to really make him a likeable character given his introduction.

Kolya's death just seemed a letdown after how much pain and drama he has caused the Atlantis team. I would have preferred something a bit more than what we got: a hostage situation that is over when the hero shoots the main bad guy in the last 60 seconds of the show.

[azure-horizon.livejournal.com]

I think after CG, John just wanted to get him to France.

I can't blame him for just shooting him.

[renisanz.livejournal.com]

vipersweb: My guess is they wanted to finish up the Kolya/renegade Genii plotline and figured this was the best way to do so.

I agree. While I don't hate the episode, I was like, "That's it?!" with the way John ended Kolya. However, I think the only good thing about the way it ended, was that it seemed that TPTB wanted there to be no question that Kolya was actually dead, therefore ending any likely speculation that he would come back eventually. I wish it could have been a lot less anticlimatic, though.

[tielan]

It seems that 'anticlimatic' is the opinion of most people regarding Kolya.

And, yeah, as kristen999 says below, they probably should have focused specifically on the Genii and left Lucius out of it entirely.

[kristen999.livejournal.com]

Not much to add. What really enraged me was to even involve Lucius, an annoying, stupid, 'comedic' element to a plotline that should have been %100 about Kolya and the Genii.

Why on Earth did they mix the two? Let's take Atlantis's biggest villains story lines and mix it with this 'funny' guy actor.

A big old mess. Yes, some scenes were decent and mentioned above, but the Team and Sheppard deserved to have a better build up to killing Kolya .

What a waste.

[tielan]

I think a lot of Season Three was wasted - partly because everyone was spread too thin over both SGA and SG1, and partly because they only reiterated the same old, same old of the previous seasons of both Stargate shows.

Replicators as the bad guys preying on the previously-introduced bad guys, explosive and technological solutions save the day every time, no reference to the Pegasus natives or any consequences that might come of Atlantis' interference, no sense of anything but Earth's almighty importance in the Grand Scheme Of Things.

[toasteronfire.livejournal.com]

For me it was a combination of the return of Lucius, an anticlimactic, cheesy Western-flick death for Kolya, and the oh-so-tired early European village set and costumes.

The mere presence of Lucius pretty much ruined the ep for me. I can't stand the character or the actor. I thought Kolya turned all bark and no bite post Storm/Eye and adding Lucius into the mix didn't help things. A more fitting end to Kolya would have been in an ep with far more serious and dangerous undertones.

[tielan]

I disagree that Kolya was all bark and no bite. What he did in Common Ground bit pretty hard.

But, yes, Kolya is the kind of bad guy you'd want to go out with a bang, not a whimper.

[friendshipper.livejournal.com]

I was never even that fond of Kolya as a character, but I hated the fact that the whole episode was played for laughs, with no real sense of menace or danger. (A problem I had in general with much of season 3.) I like the show's humorous element but not when it's so overwhelming that there's no tension -- especially when most of it wasn't even funny! Kolya went from being a menacing and fairly complex bad guy in Storm/Eye (he's not *evil*, just doing his job) to a cartoonish buffoon who died in a ludicrous parody of a Wild West shootout. Nowhere in the episode is there any feeling that the characters or the townspeople are really in danger.

I think I would have been much happier with it if they'd taken the exact same scenario and played it "straight" -- a revenge-obsessed baddie kidnapping Sheppard's little Atlantis "family" should be full of opportunities for worry and self-sacrifice and little bonding moments, but instead, most of what we got was jokes and the characters standing around looking bored, not to mention WAY too much Lucius, the most annoying guest star ever.

[tielan]

a revenge-obsessed baddie kidnapping Sheppard's little Atlantis "family" should be full of opportunities for worry and self-sacrifice and little bonding moments

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

One of my problems with Stargate's "funny" episodes is that they rely more on in-your-face slapstick than the subtler types of humour.

One of the "best" moments of humour I've seen in Atlantis is in a completely unfunny episode - Missing.

Teyla and Keller arrive on New Athos, and Teyla offers to take one of the two bags Jennifer is carrying. Jennifer says, "Oh, no, I packed it, I should carry it." In the next scene, Teyla's carrying both bags.

Oh, and the barbarian guys in the same episode, who are shot sucking on the lollipops Jennifer took to treat the Athosian kids. They didn't have to say a thing, but it was a great moment.

[live-brave.livejournal.com]

I can't say I hated it, but it was definitely not one of the best episodes they've churned out...probably somewhere near the bottom in fact. I felt that the two Lucius episodes came too close together. It might have been slightly better received if there had been some healing time after the first. :)

I'm not usually a nit-picker when it comes to continuity but there were a few points that struck even me as puzzling (like the fact that the personal shield allowed Lucius to eat and drink but it wouldn't allow Rodney to do the same). It's especially weird when the writers and directors realize that there's a problem with continuity and still let it go.

Also, as people have mentioned, the cheesy 'Shoot Out at the Atlantis Corral' ending for Kolya was a let-down. He's been one of their most persistent adversaries, and to see him go out like that...*shakes head sadly*. I have nothing against him being shot but the way it was done was too anti-climactic.

I did like that it was Sheppard that finally killed Kolya. As the Genii episodes went on, it seemed like Kolya had more of a vendetta against Sheppard than the people of Atlantis as a whole. It was fitting that the final fight was just between them.

[tielan]

It might have been slightly better received if there had been some healing time after the first. :)

I just laughed 'Irresistable' off. It didn't unduly bother me, it wasn't particularly fantastic...it wsa just something I had to get through to watch the rest of the season (for which I had high hopes at the time, the more fool I).

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

You know who doesn't get a wacky redemption arc?

The SERIAL RAPIST doesn't get a wacky redemption arc!

[tielan]

Yes, well..."Welcome to Stargate Atlantis."

*grimace*