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Because I've had a number of people ask about and for beta-reading in the last four months (I put my name down for a beta-reading program at ff.net - yes, I know), and I think I should set some things straight:
How do I find a beta reader?
a) Find someone whose work you consider at least as good, preferably better than yours,
b) ask them to beta for you.
If they say no, then they say no. Move on to the next candidate. If I can't find someone whose work or perspective I respect in the area, character, or pairing that I'm writing in, I'll choose someone whose work or perspective I respect outside of the area, character, or pairing that I'm writing in.
--
However, I find the important question is not How do I find a beta reader? but How do I keep a good beta reader?
--
How do I keep a good beta reader?
The answer is:
i) don't be 'precious' about your work; if they're better than you and they come up with criticism, listen to what they're saying and seriously think about it,
ii) learn from what they point out to you, don't just implement it and say 'thanks' - think about why they said it in the first place, and remember it the next time you write something,
iii) thank them, often and lots.
One of the best responses I ever got from one of my betas was, "Jack O'Neill would never let this behaviour pass. You have completely raped his character, his honour, his sense of right and wrong. I'm very offended and bitterly disappointed. I expected this from [fans who had a habit of making Jack teh evol/mean for the purposes of their story about their pwecious woobie] but not from you."
It hurt like hell to hear that. But when the red haze cleared, I realised that she was right. Jack's character had been forgotten in my need to 'make the plot work', and my story was the poorer for it. I needed that kick in the pants, and I rewrote that section of the story.
More importantly, I learned from it: a character should never be made subordinate to the needs of the plot - otherwise both plot and character become meaningless.
Sadly, that beta drifted out of fandom a few months later, and I had to hunt up a new one.
--
Will you beta my story?
The short answer: no.
The long answer follows:
I've beta-read for a number of people in my life, few of them more than once.
Mostly, I've found that people who ask me to beta-read for them just want someone to pat them on the head and say "this is a really awesome fic" and not actually offer any criticism. In short, they just want validation - they don't want to improve.
I have set four basic requirements of beta-reading:
1. Do you have a competent grasp of the English language? Will I find myself repeatedly adding or deleting commas and apostrophes, wincing at the change of tense in your story, correcting the spelling of your character names, or writing "I do not think this means what you think it means"? (A little bit of this, fine; too much and I begin to wonder why you're writing at all.)
2. Do you re-read your story through and correct any errors you come across before you send it to me? I rarely send my story off to a beta without reading it through - to the point of obsession - and making sure that she has minimal work to do.
3. Do your characters act like real people, or like fiction tropes? Are they true to their canon depictions in thought, word, and deed and not just filling the Chosen Roles for your Story Trope? Is John Sheppard acting like a military leader, or like a horny teenaged boy? (Unless, of course, John is a horny teenaged boy in the story, in which case, is he still recognisable as John Sheppard?)
4. Are you going to learn from my beta'ing? Am I going to find myself correcting the same mistakes you make the second, third, fourth time through?
#4 is probably the most important requirement. We all start at the beginning; but how fast you learn and improve is up to you. And, just because this is "fun" doesn't mean that it shouldn't be hard work. Hard work can be enjoyable too: and the reward is being good.
--
Why do I need a beta anyway?
Your beta is your lifeline to 'people who aren't you'. They are someone who isn't privy to your thought processes, who is reading your story as a stranger and who can tell you what works and what doesn't, far better than you can judge yourself.
For people new to the internets and writing, I advise against having a friend beta you. Find a stranger, someone who likes your character or pairing, and ask them. Swallow your pills and take your chops, learn, grow, and improve, and the chances are a broader spectrum of people will compliment you on your work.
How do I find a beta reader?
a) Find someone whose work you consider at least as good, preferably better than yours,
b) ask them to beta for you.
If they say no, then they say no. Move on to the next candidate. If I can't find someone whose work or perspective I respect in the area, character, or pairing that I'm writing in, I'll choose someone whose work or perspective I respect outside of the area, character, or pairing that I'm writing in.
--
However, I find the important question is not How do I find a beta reader? but How do I keep a good beta reader?
--
How do I keep a good beta reader?
The answer is:
i) don't be 'precious' about your work; if they're better than you and they come up with criticism, listen to what they're saying and seriously think about it,
ii) learn from what they point out to you, don't just implement it and say 'thanks' - think about why they said it in the first place, and remember it the next time you write something,
iii) thank them, often and lots.
One of the best responses I ever got from one of my betas was, "Jack O'Neill would never let this behaviour pass. You have completely raped his character, his honour, his sense of right and wrong. I'm very offended and bitterly disappointed. I expected this from [fans who had a habit of making Jack teh evol/mean for the purposes of their story about their pwecious woobie] but not from you."
It hurt like hell to hear that. But when the red haze cleared, I realised that she was right. Jack's character had been forgotten in my need to 'make the plot work', and my story was the poorer for it. I needed that kick in the pants, and I rewrote that section of the story.
More importantly, I learned from it: a character should never be made subordinate to the needs of the plot - otherwise both plot and character become meaningless.
Sadly, that beta drifted out of fandom a few months later, and I had to hunt up a new one.
--
Will you beta my story?
The short answer: no.
The long answer follows:
I've beta-read for a number of people in my life, few of them more than once.
Mostly, I've found that people who ask me to beta-read for them just want someone to pat them on the head and say "this is a really awesome fic" and not actually offer any criticism. In short, they just want validation - they don't want to improve.
I have set four basic requirements of beta-reading:
1. Do you have a competent grasp of the English language? Will I find myself repeatedly adding or deleting commas and apostrophes, wincing at the change of tense in your story, correcting the spelling of your character names, or writing "I do not think this means what you think it means"? (A little bit of this, fine; too much and I begin to wonder why you're writing at all.)
2. Do you re-read your story through and correct any errors you come across before you send it to me? I rarely send my story off to a beta without reading it through - to the point of obsession - and making sure that she has minimal work to do.
3. Do your characters act like real people, or like fiction tropes? Are they true to their canon depictions in thought, word, and deed and not just filling the Chosen Roles for your Story Trope? Is John Sheppard acting like a military leader, or like a horny teenaged boy? (Unless, of course, John is a horny teenaged boy in the story, in which case, is he still recognisable as John Sheppard?)
4. Are you going to learn from my beta'ing? Am I going to find myself correcting the same mistakes you make the second, third, fourth time through?
#4 is probably the most important requirement. We all start at the beginning; but how fast you learn and improve is up to you. And, just because this is "fun" doesn't mean that it shouldn't be hard work. Hard work can be enjoyable too: and the reward is being good.
--
Why do I need a beta anyway?
Your beta is your lifeline to 'people who aren't you'. They are someone who isn't privy to your thought processes, who is reading your story as a stranger and who can tell you what works and what doesn't, far better than you can judge yourself.
For people new to the internets and writing, I advise against having a friend beta you. Find a stranger, someone who likes your character or pairing, and ask them. Swallow your pills and take your chops, learn, grow, and improve, and the chances are a broader spectrum of people will compliment you on your work.
Tags:
no subject
But yes, treat your beta readers well; I've discovered having one for plot holes/continuity and a second for over-all grammar and flow works best for me. But then I think I'm probably fortunate in that I've had a stable beta for so long (and have found someone who is very good at picking out those plot holes/continuity issues).
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Also:
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Yes, this in particular can be very frustrating - trying to figure out how to instruct someone on how to fix their fic.
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I admit, I'm impatient with people. Partly because much of what I know of grammar and spelling I learned without anyone teaching me by observing other people. It frustrates me when other people can't, don't, or won't learn that way.
But, yes, when trying to help anyone, the question is: "how much do they want you to help them, and how much do they want to help themselves?"
My experience is that if the scale is weighted more towards the 'you help them' side, then they're probably not worth the time.
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no subject
Like I mentioned in IM, I've been asked to beta a variety of stuff over the last six months and certain things had begun to stand out in the people who asked.
no subject
I started betaing because I figured it would be a way to improve the quality of the stories, particularly on the Ronon/Keller front, since the ship is rather new. I'm not the greatest writer, but I'm feel I'm pretty good at pointing out inconsistencies and recognizing areas where there writer needs to elaborate.
One person who I beta'd for recently told me that I "spoiled" her, because she liked my method. She wrote, "I find myself looking for someone who will offer suggestions and criticism as well as check my punctuation and grammar."
I thought, That's what you should have been looking for in a beta reader all along. Either way, it's cool she sees the difference now. You're supposed to want someone who is going to push you to be a better writer. If not, there's no point in writing at all.
I mean, yes, part of it is writing stories that are fun and enjoyable. But I personally want to read stories that stay with me, ones whose title I can remember, that make me want to seek out other works by that writer.
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In fact, I think the only person I've asked to beta something for me in this fandom is you. I've got a friend who has never watched Atlantis who reads through and points things out to me and such and that helps - he's gotten to know the characters through what I write.
I'm bad in the sense that practically nothing of mine is beta-ed unless it's for someone else. I read through my stories when I write them but I still always miss things and it's when I read them after I've posted that I notice. Still, I go back and change it.
I know what my weaknesses are in writing and I try really hard when I'm writing to fix them but sometimes they just slip out so... yeah. But I am aware of the fact that I have issues with my writing, which is more than I can say for some people I've beta-ed for. I once beta read a story and had to practically rewrite the basic plot for them because it was just so all over the place, the timeline wonky and the spelling atrocious. It was awful. I've never done it for that person again because they posted the story with only a few minor spelling adjustments and left the rest as it was.
It ended up being a "ff.net" favourite. That's saying a lot.
*sigh*
Fandom, eh?
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I've definitely seen that happen quite a few times. *shakes head*
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It's disturbing.
no subject
It makes one question why they should put actual effort into anything they write if practically anything is going to receive high praise, or at least lots of reviews.
no subject
Someone once told me they didn't read my stories because they were far too much like the show and she read fan fiction to escape the fact that John and Teyla weren't together. I was like... "Fair enough but.. WTF?"
no subject
I've noticed this trend in fans before - not just in SGA, but in other shows.
Someone once said they'd never read my stories because they needed John and Teyla to be 'soul mates', that it wasn't enough for them to respect and care about each other - it must be A Love The Poets Dream Of.
no subject
Two simple answers:
a) because it's too far above their comprehension for them to appreciate,
b) because they're jealous of the writing and don't want to face their own inadequacies.
no subject
When I beta, I tend to focus on plot holes and inconsistencies. In part, this is b/c my own grammatical education was so poor, that I occasionally miss grammatical errors. But, I've found that working with my primary beta, has helped improve my grammar to the point where I'm more confident on that level now. But yeah. I enjoy beta'ing b/c it helps me give back to the fandom, especially since, until recently, my writing was very slowly produced.
no subject
I admit, I'd rather the 'plot and inconsistency' level of beta - if not the 'characterisation and reality' beta.
Truthfully, if someone can't get their spelling and grammar correct (every Word Processor has a spellcheck these days - USE THE DAMN THING, PEOPLES!) then there's probably not much hope for them on any higher level.
no subject
I think that is what disappointed me with Big Bang this year. On the one hand, I give all the participants credit, b/c writing at least 40K words is a super big achievement and I have a lot of respect for that. But some of the fics... I stopped reading a couple of them, and was extremely disappointed with at least one of them because I expected it to be more than it was, based on the number of words written and the plot description. I need to be able to draw a line through the plot, to show me where everything connects. If that doesn't work, I'm going to call the author on it.
no subject
no subject
no subject
But yes, treat your beta readers well; I've discovered having one for plot holes/continuity and a second for over-all grammar and flow works best for me. But then I think I'm probably fortunate in that I've had a stable beta for so long (and have found someone who is very good at picking out those plot holes/continuity issues).
no subject
no subject
Also:
no subject
Yes, this in particular can be very frustrating - trying to figure out how to instruct someone on how to fix their fic.
no subject
no subject
I admit, I'm impatient with people. Partly because much of what I know of grammar and spelling I learned without anyone teaching me by observing other people. It frustrates me when other people can't, don't, or won't learn that way.
But, yes, when trying to help anyone, the question is: "how much do they want you to help them, and how much do they want to help themselves?"
My experience is that if the scale is weighted more towards the 'you help them' side, then they're probably not worth the time.
no subject
no subject
Like I mentioned in IM, I've been asked to beta a variety of stuff over the last six months and certain things had begun to stand out in the people who asked.
no subject
I started betaing because I figured it would be a way to improve the quality of the stories, particularly on the Ronon/Keller front, since the ship is rather new. I'm not the greatest writer, but I'm feel I'm pretty good at pointing out inconsistencies and recognizing areas where there writer needs to elaborate.
One person who I beta'd for recently told me that I "spoiled" her, because she liked my method. She wrote, "I find myself looking for someone who will offer suggestions and criticism as well as check my punctuation and grammar."
I thought, That's what you should have been looking for in a beta reader all along. Either way, it's cool she sees the difference now. You're supposed to want someone who is going to push you to be a better writer. If not, there's no point in writing at all.
I mean, yes, part of it is writing stories that are fun and enjoyable. But I personally want to read stories that stay with me, ones whose title I can remember, that make me want to seek out other works by that writer.
no subject
In fact, I think the only person I've asked to beta something for me in this fandom is you. I've got a friend who has never watched Atlantis who reads through and points things out to me and such and that helps - he's gotten to know the characters through what I write.
I'm bad in the sense that practically nothing of mine is beta-ed unless it's for someone else. I read through my stories when I write them but I still always miss things and it's when I read them after I've posted that I notice. Still, I go back and change it.
I know what my weaknesses are in writing and I try really hard when I'm writing to fix them but sometimes they just slip out so... yeah. But I am aware of the fact that I have issues with my writing, which is more than I can say for some people I've beta-ed for. I once beta read a story and had to practically rewrite the basic plot for them because it was just so all over the place, the timeline wonky and the spelling atrocious. It was awful. I've never done it for that person again because they posted the story with only a few minor spelling adjustments and left the rest as it was.
It ended up being a "ff.net" favourite. That's saying a lot.
*sigh*
Fandom, eh?
no subject
I've definitely seen that happen quite a few times. *shakes head*
no subject
It's disturbing.
no subject
It makes one question why they should put actual effort into anything they write if practically anything is going to receive high praise, or at least lots of reviews.
no subject
Someone once told me they didn't read my stories because they were far too much like the show and she read fan fiction to escape the fact that John and Teyla weren't together. I was like... "Fair enough but.. WTF?"
no subject
I've noticed this trend in fans before - not just in SGA, but in other shows.
Someone once said they'd never read my stories because they needed John and Teyla to be 'soul mates', that it wasn't enough for them to respect and care about each other - it must be A Love The Poets Dream Of.
no subject
Two simple answers:
a) because it's too far above their comprehension for them to appreciate,
b) because they're jealous of the writing and don't want to face their own inadequacies.
no subject
When I beta, I tend to focus on plot holes and inconsistencies. In part, this is b/c my own grammatical education was so poor, that I occasionally miss grammatical errors. But, I've found that working with my primary beta, has helped improve my grammar to the point where I'm more confident on that level now. But yeah. I enjoy beta'ing b/c it helps me give back to the fandom, especially since, until recently, my writing was very slowly produced.
no subject
I admit, I'd rather the 'plot and inconsistency' level of beta - if not the 'characterisation and reality' beta.
Truthfully, if someone can't get their spelling and grammar correct (every Word Processor has a spellcheck these days - USE THE DAMN THING, PEOPLES!) then there's probably not much hope for them on any higher level.
no subject
I think that is what disappointed me with Big Bang this year. On the one hand, I give all the participants credit, b/c writing at least 40K words is a super big achievement and I have a lot of respect for that. But some of the fics... I stopped reading a couple of them, and was extremely disappointed with at least one of them because I expected it to be more than it was, based on the number of words written and the plot description. I need to be able to draw a line through the plot, to show me where everything connects. If that doesn't work, I'm going to call the author on it.
no subject
no subject