sudden thought on 'Eureka' characterisation

[tielan]

Is Allison Blake 'coded white'?

I mean, she's educated, intelligent, professional, business-stylish, savvy, and doesn't speak like she just sprang from "da hood" (I hope that's not an offensive way of phrasing it).

While the above list of traits are certainly not exclusively white, if you're not white, educated white people take you more seriously when you behave like an educated white person. That's not just an idea put forward in someone else's meta, BTW, that's my own experience, too.

I'm not saying that Allison Blake is a bad character; I enjoy Salli Richardson's portrayal of her and YAY for a main CoC who's a woman with a scientific background and permitted to show her experience in leadership in the show. But the character of Allison Blake could just as easily be played by a white woman without changing one iota of her dialogue or apparent cultural/racial experience.

I guess that prompts the question on the flip side; does a character/person of obvious non-white descent need to have some kind of connection to the diaspora of her descent in order to be 'a valid portrayal' of her racial type? (In particular, I'd like to know how people of non-white descent feel about this.)

*sigh* And now I have a headache from trying to phrase this post as inoffensively as possible. If I've failed on the inoffensive front, I apologise. I'd appreciate it if you would provide me with a notification of the offence, a brief explanation, and an alternative means of explaining the concepts.

ETA: I now consider this topic an example of how good people can say stupid things and be called on it, and how pervasive our perceptions of colour and the depiction of them can be - even to POC.

Comments

[heygirlie.livejournal.com]

I've thought about this too, mostly because I'm also an Alison and almost 100% of the time any other fictional Alison has been a pretty blue-eyed blonde, which I am very much NOT. ^_^

IMO, in Allison Blake's case, the best we can hope for (since it's TV) are two ways to go: either they upfront bring up her being female/non-white/single-mother and deal with it thoughtfully onscreen, or they pretend like it doesn't matter because racism/sexism/anything-ism doesn't exist in Eureka. One is realistic and the other is optimistic. I think they've gone with the second one, which is kind of nice until you realize that Vincent is apparently the only gay person in town.

[tielan]

either they upfront bring up her being female/non-white/single-mother and deal with it thoughtfully onscreen, or they pretend like it doesn't matter because racism/sexism/anything-ism doesn't exist in Eureka

The optimistic angle seems pretty common in TV. I haven't seen too many shows that deal with the -isms on an incidental level.

The difference I'm noticing between Eureka and other shows is that other shows "code" non-whites in stereotypes: they're minor characters rather than main, or not technically apt, they speak 'differently', they come from backgrounds that are used as indicators of 'low socioeconomic status', or they're used as 'noble savages'.

Overall, I suppose that Eureka's doing better than most in the question of "equality", but it's not addressing '-ism' issues.

[rhianona]

I think that any of the characters on Eureka can be played by any ethnicity. Eureka isn't about race.

One of the most attractive aspects of the show to me is that gender, race, etc... don't matter on the show. I love that there are anywhere from 2-4 strong women in the show per season.

[tielan]

Maybe the show isn't about race; but I don't believe that it has to preclude race (or gender) playing some part in the lives of the characters.

[pentapus.livejournal.com]

I think it's important to note that you're discussing class as well as race, here. A lot of what you mentioned as "white" could be swapped out with "middle class to upper class" with the accompanying fancy university educations. The racial and socioeconomic divisions line up in some ways, especially in TV and film.

I'm not speaking as an expert(and I'm going to be on a plane for the rest of the discussion) but that's what struck me when I read your post.

[tielan]

That's true - race and class are very closely intertwined when it comes to both perception and depiction.

The thing is that I'd expect hints of the cultural background to bleed through in some way, no matter the socioeconomic background.

For example, I have relatives - professional doctors, businesswomen, professionals - who would completely decry any kind of numeric superstition, and yet have cars with numberplates XXX-2288 or XXX-888.

[beatrice_otter]

I think you did well on phrasing a tricky subject as inoffensively as possible. OTOH, being white myself, my "offensiveness radar" isn't anywhere near as finely calibrated on this subject as someone else's might be. My take on the subject is that requiring CoC to have some kind of connection to the diaspora of their descent in order to be "a valid portrayal" is kind of like requiring female characters to be nurturers and/or only talk to other women about their boyfriends (or, conversely, feminism) in order to be "a valid portrayal." But, again, as a white woman my perspective isn't anything like authoritative on the subject. It would be nice if the show dealt with issues of color and/or gender, but I don't think characters should be straight-jacketed by them. (Not that you're saying they should be straight-jacketed by them, either, but you get my drift.) YMMV.

[marag.livejournal.com]

::points:: That's what I was thinking, but was absolutely unable to articulate.

However, I'm certainly open to differing opinions from actual PoC, since I'm white white white like a really pale thing that doesn't even tan ;)

[sugargroupie.livejournal.com]

That one would even expect her to speak like she's from "da hood" shows how the audience, even PoC, have internalized racist tropes and characterizations.

To answer your first question, Allison, Henry and Jo are what most PoC, me especially, want to see in television and film; characters with depth and flaws and frelling backstory. Characters that could be played by anyone, but are portrayed by actors of color and, more importantly, are not tied to stereotypes or held as the one representative for their race. People of color are not a monolith. White people are never held to this standard, so why are PoC?

I do wish that Eureka would tackle issues of race, and the intersection of race and gender in the lives of their CoCs, but I'd gladly take what the show has given us over what I've seen in other programming.

In regards to your second question, I want CoCs to be a true reflection of reality, and not simply what white people assume to be true. I'm really tired of white people telling me what my life and experiences are.

[tielan]

From my perspective, accent is one of the indicators that people use to make judgements about others - not just racial but socioeconomic.

Most of the shows I've watched either have black CoC with "black" accents or have black actors of colour playing aliens with "different" accents.

I do wish that Eureka would tackle issues of race, and the intersection of race and gender in the lives of their CoCs, but I'd gladly take what the show has given us over what I've seen in other programming.

I guess that's the thing. Eureka has addressed the question of CoC-as-people (as compared to stereotypes) - giving them implicit equal status by putting them at the centre of the action.

It's certainly a start, but that's not necessarily the whole of the experience (or even part of it) of CoC.

Mixed race

[stacy2002.livejournal.com]

Every day I thank G*d that I wasn't born in the USA where I would be [takes deep breath] exotic. Part Indian (from India, not the other one), part black and part white, I look pretty much like every other fourth girl on the street. We do have racism, but it is mostly based on the SHADE of your brownness. I have no white relatives, but my blond cousin is mistaken for Hispanic (Latina? don't know), and green and hazel eyes abound. My mother married (and divorced) a part-Indian man, and her sister married someone who is part Chinese. When we all get together, nobody cares.

I have a point, trust me.

40 years of independence from Merry Old England means that we have huge issues about self-image and identity as a nation, and our middle class does like to wear suits, but we also have an intelligentsia that has (metaphorically) seized control of our universities and forced our educated young people to look at themselves carefully and make careful decisions about our role models. A woman like Alison Blake who walks with confidence in a tailored suit is a dime a dozen here. They assume, and rightfully so, that what is in their brain is their ticket to the top. They may 'borrow' their style from women in magazines, but every one of them has women who never held positions of power but lived as though they did in their background - even if they have to borrow someone else's Granny for inspiration.

I enjoy seeing women being portrayed as nonracial because it is what I am accustomed to. In my circles, people want to know how smart, how competent, how strong you are. And if you wear Gucci or dress like an African princess, nobody cares - much.

Re: Mixed race

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

*points* omg she's exotic! like tiger woods or something!

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Yes, a very sticky subject, and I am white (as you well know) but I'd like to think that, as a thinking person, my opinion is an valid as anyone's.

Keep in mind that I've only seen one episode of Eureka, but...

doesn't speak like she just sprang from "da hood"

Isn't the character in a position of authority? And it's assumed she is educated? Part of the idea of college is that you learn how to speak. The 'urban dialect' is just not one that educated people use, especially not if they want to be taken seriously by other educated people, the same way that they don't use redneck slang. And why not?

if you're not white, educated white people take you more seriously when you behave like an educated white person.

Because the above comment could be tweaked: "if you're not part of a certain group, people from said group take you more seriously when you behave like someone from said group. It's part of how humans act -- we're just more comfortable around people were perceive as being 'like us'.

But the character of Allison Blake could just as easily be played by a white woman without changing one iota of her dialogue or apparent cultural/racial experience.

Taking this to a show that I'm more familiar with... could John Sheppard be played by a Latino? Could Ford have been played by an Asian? Could Weir have been played by a black woman? I don't see why not.

Keep in mind that, more often than not, TV shows are about successful, educated, career-oriented people. If the norms for these professions are somehow 'coded white'... I dunno. It would be interested to see the stats on the real ethnic breakdown of professions like you see on TV -- doctors, lawyers, cops/investigators, desert island refugees... Or the breakdown of ethnicity of the people making these TV shows... Or the breakdown of ethnicity in the demographics that are most sought after...

[tielan]

could John Sheppard be played by a Latino? Could Ford have been played by an Asian? Could Weir have been played by a black woman? I don't see why not.

'Could' is not the same as 'would'. Sure, these characters could be played by racial types other than those which were picked, but somehow I doubt that they would have.

In previous race discussions, various people have turned out with comment that "Stargate can't possibly be racist, because the casting call for the character type that Rodney ended up filling was originally for a black man."

However, i find myself wondering. Given that Jack/Nathan slash seems infinitely more popular than Jack/Henry in Eureka - in spite of the fact that Jack and Henry are 'best friends' in the way of John and Rodney - would a black scientist have been considered as "slashable" with John Sheppard as Rodney is considered?

Sure, there's no way to know short of hopping into the next universe over, but it's an interesting proposition.

Even looking at the Stargate Universe casting call: the characters who are labelled as "all ethnicities" are the geeky girl (asian) and the 'psycho' guy (will probably end up afro-american). Implicit in that call for "all ethicities" for those two characters is that the older military male, the younger military male, the socialite, and the scientist/geek should not be "ethnic".

You've got a point about shows being about "successful people" and that the norms of "success" are more likely to be associated "white" in our culture.

Ultimately, though, the point I wanted to make is that Allison Blake doesn't seem to either face any issues that might crop up for a woman of colour, or have a cultural background that's at all different from, say, the redheaded auditor lady who's causing trouble at GD. Which might very well be the case in Eureka's fictional universe, but seems unlikely in our own.

Re: Mixed race

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

I know hundreds of women like Allison Blake.

She rings true to me. I'd like to see more of her family aside from her son, but it's never even occurred to me that she wasn't what she looks like AND sounds like when she opens her mouth.

I think Allison Blake is coded white depending on who's looking at her (especially depending on what any one person thinks they sees/sees when they're looking at her).

To me, Allison Blake comes across as an educated woman. She doesn't strike me as a white woman, or an identified white woman because I know so many black woman, some of whom are African-Caribbean/Indo-Caribbean and others who are African or African American that it's a relief and a joy to see her there.

Like many of the beautiful, intelligent, accomplished and brilliant women-next-door that it's my blessing to be related to and privilege to know as friends (and at times rivals), I'm sure that when she's talking with people in her immediate family she might code-switch, but that might not mean she's talking ghetto or patois. But it might.

I've been looking at this: Does a character/person of obvious non-white descent need to have some kind of connection to the diaspora of her descent in order to be 'a valid portrayal' of her racial type?

Because I'm not sure I get it, I try to flip it. When I flip it, I get something like, does a character of obvious white descent need to have some kind of connection to whiteness, beyond the obvious, in order to be a valid portrayal of her racial type? What kind of white chick is an 'obviously' white chick supposed to be?

I wonder who Allison's people are, where her family lives/has lived, if she has sisters, cousins... What sorority she's in (if at all); who she's dated, what her neighborhoods (growing up) were like... But race doesn't come up in Eureka. I want to know who her family is and who her non-Eureka contacts are. But I don't think Allison Blake could just as easily be played by a white woman. There's something about the quickness of her mind, the elegance of her carriage, the warm sensuality of her affection (be it between friends or with a lover), and the harmonies of her voice that shout real woman to me. Meaning, real like the women I know who are blessed enough to be of color/nonwhite.

Salli Richardson, to me, is also a black woman (full stop). I see her as an accomplished actress, ghetto, and like nearly all the woman I know (who aren't white or white identifying) an adept code-switcher.

Edited for grammar.

Re: Mixed race

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

and people think i just ask if Gunn on Angel eats pork or is a Q dawg merely for amusement.

OK well I do ask it for the amusement value, and.

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

If you get a chance, rent Daddy's Little Girls. It's a Tyler Perry movie.

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

Seconded.

[cricketk.livejournal.com]

I really love that Eureka is colour- and gender-blind and that everyone is out pursuing their passions to the limit of their abilities. Eureka is pretty unashamedly fantasy - "sci-fi *fluff*" as someone mentioned earlier in the comments.

It's got it's sights very firmly set on the intersection of high-tech gadgets and interpersonal relations. The fun of Eureka is that even when there are no institutional problems with race or gender or sexuality or religion, the drama still comes from the relationships between the people - love, jealousy, envy, friendship... I love that the super-geniuses get to have personal lives.

For me, it wouldn't be any more satisfying as fiction to add tensions from outside the bubble-world of Eureka. And I pretty much see anyone displaying subtle or overt signs of racism as being shunned as stupid by the town - so what would it actually gain the show to portray that?

As to whether a character needs to be seen to be connected to a culture to be a 'valid portrayal' of racial type - perhaps you are right - particularly if the audience will not accept that character as real without that connection to ethnic culture.

Maybe it's being from outside the USA, but it never occurred to me that Alison Blake is not a realistic portrayal of a woman of colour.

[tielan]

I'm from outside the USA, and I'm asking the question. Part of the reason I'm asking the question is because of the different perceptions between USA-based race issues and the race issues from other parts of the globe.

I believe that there are thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of women like Allison Blake: intelligent, technical women of colour just doing their job. In that aspect, she's an accurate, realistic portrayal of a woman of colour.

I guess my own background shades my perspective: I might be an educated woman of colour in my country, and accepted and acceptable on that front, but my racial background and upbringing is an indelible part of me, too - little indications that I belong to a subculture that isn't "western" in origin, thought, or perspective.

MINDBOGGLING

[yinkawills.livejournal.com]

I read the original comment and was flabbergasted.

I am very similar to Alison Blake- black professional, middle class, single mother etc etc. And I speak BBC/received pronunciation English. And I'm from 'da hood'. And Ms UltraBlackMilitant (culturally, politically).Very connected to the African Diaspora.Yet, throughout my life, I've had white people wonder if I grew up in a white neighbourhood or had a white husband or am in some way different from the average black person.(The answer, btw is no, no and Hell no!)

Thing is, Im from the UK (my family is, I suspect from the same country as the person who described shadism being an issue)and there are a lot of black people here, both like and unlike me. We VARY. And as I have relatives in the US, some of whom are like Alison Blake, some not- I feel I can say with confidence that black people there too, are variabe.

Its great to see someone not playing a stereotype. Sad that people think the stereotype is the only way we are- instead of one of many aspects of us. Reminds me of being on a bus 2 years ago and a white passenger announcing I was a 'clever girl', as she was startled to see me reading a huge law book. Thing is, Im over 50 (that's me in the icon) I'd been a lawyer for over 25 years, and I was due to deliver a law lecture to university students the next day.But to her, what I was doing was coded to reflect someone other than the person she was seeing.

I wasnt insulted, I was amused.
I'm not offended by the comments on Alison Blake's characterisation, Im bemused.

I think that when black people live in majority white western countries, we are viewed in these limited ways. That affects what parts we get to play in films and tv. The few actors not constricted by these views are put in the exceptional/ transending race category.When to us, they're just regular black folks, with a talent. Entertainers who go along with these assumptions and play up to them- e.g some rap artists, a number of whom are from middle class backgrounds- are rewarded with work.

I dont think Eureka is race blind. Its just that as western society is so stratified via race, ethnicity and class, its jarring to encounter a tv programme that doesnt give these topics a disproportionate importance. Alison and Henry appear normal to me.They may be startling to a white viewer, used to seeing broadly drawn stereotypes.
Some people cope with the dissonance by saying they dont see these characters as black people, or people of colour (I laugh like a drain the way people tie themselves in knots in SGA fandom sometimes talking of these topics in relation to Teyla and Ronon and to Teal'c from SG1).

Frankly, I cant wait for the day when all this crap is just quaint, and inexplicable because its obsolete.

Hope thats in my lifetime.

[ceares.livejournal.com]

I guess that prompts the question on the flip side; does a character/person of obvious non-white descent need to have some kind of connection to the diaspora of her descent in order to be 'a valid portrayal' of her racial type?

You know I'd kind of like specifics of what you mean here. What exactly do you think she should be bringing to the character?

I mean basically this reads as if you're saying she's not 'black' enough.

I was raised lower-mid middleclass and while the members of my family weren't professional, or college grads they were/are diverse in speech, and interests and 'culture'.

If you walk in to my house, there's classical music by the stereo, horror novels on the bookcase and Leroy Neiman posters on the mantel. All belonging to my mother by the way-a black woman raised in the 50's and 60's in the south.

Basically I don't believe there is a black or ethnic experience-only your individual one. I don't identify with people from the hood any more or less than I identify with people from 90210, so I'm quite content with Allison being exactly who and what she is.

[tielan]

Basically I don't believe there is a black or ethnic experience - only your individual one

Something that I came to understand through the conversations of the last week.

I'd still like to see a well-written show subtly address gender/race issues through characters written in the way of Allison Blake and Henry Deacon, though.

[la-vie-noire.livejournal.com]

Heck, I know almost nothing of this show, but what I know that those traits you mention there aren't white. Well spoken, intelligent women can be women of color, you know.

does a character/person of obvious non-white descent need to have some kind of connection to the diaspora of her descent in order to be 'a valid portrayal' of her racial type?

I'm kinda baffled that CoC have to get stereotypic traits that go with what white people think of them, but white characters don't need to have their 'racial background' addressed. I know white characters have their backgrounds always addressed because almost all of western first world is white, and white culture is always present in the shows made there; so you don't go the 'she/he is like that because she/he is white' thing with them: the shows (and audience) just assume the culture isn't there because they are 'default.'

But being educated and intelligent definitely aren't part of what differentiates 'white culture' of POC's cultures.

[heygirlie.livejournal.com]

I've thought about this too, mostly because I'm also an Alison and almost 100% of the time any other fictional Alison has been a pretty blue-eyed blonde, which I am very much NOT. ^_^

IMO, in Allison Blake's case, the best we can hope for (since it's TV) are two ways to go: either they upfront bring up her being female/non-white/single-mother and deal with it thoughtfully onscreen, or they pretend like it doesn't matter because racism/sexism/anything-ism doesn't exist in Eureka. One is realistic and the other is optimistic. I think they've gone with the second one, which is kind of nice until you realize that Vincent is apparently the only gay person in town.

[tielan]

either they upfront bring up her being female/non-white/single-mother and deal with it thoughtfully onscreen, or they pretend like it doesn't matter because racism/sexism/anything-ism doesn't exist in Eureka

The optimistic angle seems pretty common in TV. I haven't seen too many shows that deal with the -isms on an incidental level.

The difference I'm noticing between Eureka and other shows is that other shows "code" non-whites in stereotypes: they're minor characters rather than main, or not technically apt, they speak 'differently', they come from backgrounds that are used as indicators of 'low socioeconomic status', or they're used as 'noble savages'.

Overall, I suppose that Eureka's doing better than most in the question of "equality", but it's not addressing '-ism' issues.

[rhianona]

I think that any of the characters on Eureka can be played by any ethnicity. Eureka isn't about race.

One of the most attractive aspects of the show to me is that gender, race, etc... don't matter on the show. I love that there are anywhere from 2-4 strong women in the show per season.

[tielan]

Maybe the show isn't about race; but I don't believe that it has to preclude race (or gender) playing some part in the lives of the characters.

[pentapus.livejournal.com]

I think it's important to note that you're discussing class as well as race, here. A lot of what you mentioned as "white" could be swapped out with "middle class to upper class" with the accompanying fancy university educations. The racial and socioeconomic divisions line up in some ways, especially in TV and film.

I'm not speaking as an expert(and I'm going to be on a plane for the rest of the discussion) but that's what struck me when I read your post.

[tielan]

That's true - race and class are very closely intertwined when it comes to both perception and depiction.

The thing is that I'd expect hints of the cultural background to bleed through in some way, no matter the socioeconomic background.

For example, I have relatives - professional doctors, businesswomen, professionals - who would completely decry any kind of numeric superstition, and yet have cars with numberplates XXX-2288 or XXX-888.

[beatrice_otter]

I think you did well on phrasing a tricky subject as inoffensively as possible. OTOH, being white myself, my "offensiveness radar" isn't anywhere near as finely calibrated on this subject as someone else's might be. My take on the subject is that requiring CoC to have some kind of connection to the diaspora of their descent in order to be "a valid portrayal" is kind of like requiring female characters to be nurturers and/or only talk to other women about their boyfriends (or, conversely, feminism) in order to be "a valid portrayal." But, again, as a white woman my perspective isn't anything like authoritative on the subject. It would be nice if the show dealt with issues of color and/or gender, but I don't think characters should be straight-jacketed by them. (Not that you're saying they should be straight-jacketed by them, either, but you get my drift.) YMMV.

[marag.livejournal.com]

::points:: That's what I was thinking, but was absolutely unable to articulate.

However, I'm certainly open to differing opinions from actual PoC, since I'm white white white like a really pale thing that doesn't even tan ;)

[sugargroupie.livejournal.com]

That one would even expect her to speak like she's from "da hood" shows how the audience, even PoC, have internalized racist tropes and characterizations.

To answer your first question, Allison, Henry and Jo are what most PoC, me especially, want to see in television and film; characters with depth and flaws and frelling backstory. Characters that could be played by anyone, but are portrayed by actors of color and, more importantly, are not tied to stereotypes or held as the one representative for their race. People of color are not a monolith. White people are never held to this standard, so why are PoC?

I do wish that Eureka would tackle issues of race, and the intersection of race and gender in the lives of their CoCs, but I'd gladly take what the show has given us over what I've seen in other programming.

In regards to your second question, I want CoCs to be a true reflection of reality, and not simply what white people assume to be true. I'm really tired of white people telling me what my life and experiences are.

[tielan]

From my perspective, accent is one of the indicators that people use to make judgements about others - not just racial but socioeconomic.

Most of the shows I've watched either have black CoC with "black" accents or have black actors of colour playing aliens with "different" accents.

I do wish that Eureka would tackle issues of race, and the intersection of race and gender in the lives of their CoCs, but I'd gladly take what the show has given us over what I've seen in other programming.

I guess that's the thing. Eureka has addressed the question of CoC-as-people (as compared to stereotypes) - giving them implicit equal status by putting them at the centre of the action.

It's certainly a start, but that's not necessarily the whole of the experience (or even part of it) of CoC.

Mixed race

[stacy2002.livejournal.com]

Every day I thank G*d that I wasn't born in the USA where I would be [takes deep breath] exotic. Part Indian (from India, not the other one), part black and part white, I look pretty much like every other fourth girl on the street. We do have racism, but it is mostly based on the SHADE of your brownness. I have no white relatives, but my blond cousin is mistaken for Hispanic (Latina? don't know), and green and hazel eyes abound. My mother married (and divorced) a part-Indian man, and her sister married someone who is part Chinese. When we all get together, nobody cares.

I have a point, trust me.

40 years of independence from Merry Old England means that we have huge issues about self-image and identity as a nation, and our middle class does like to wear suits, but we also have an intelligentsia that has (metaphorically) seized control of our universities and forced our educated young people to look at themselves carefully and make careful decisions about our role models. A woman like Alison Blake who walks with confidence in a tailored suit is a dime a dozen here. They assume, and rightfully so, that what is in their brain is their ticket to the top. They may 'borrow' their style from women in magazines, but every one of them has women who never held positions of power but lived as though they did in their background - even if they have to borrow someone else's Granny for inspiration.

I enjoy seeing women being portrayed as nonracial because it is what I am accustomed to. In my circles, people want to know how smart, how competent, how strong you are. And if you wear Gucci or dress like an African princess, nobody cares - much.

Re: Mixed race

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

*points* omg she's exotic! like tiger woods or something!

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Yes, a very sticky subject, and I am white (as you well know) but I'd like to think that, as a thinking person, my opinion is an valid as anyone's.

Keep in mind that I've only seen one episode of Eureka, but...

doesn't speak like she just sprang from "da hood"

Isn't the character in a position of authority? And it's assumed she is educated? Part of the idea of college is that you learn how to speak. The 'urban dialect' is just not one that educated people use, especially not if they want to be taken seriously by other educated people, the same way that they don't use redneck slang. And why not?

if you're not white, educated white people take you more seriously when you behave like an educated white person.

Because the above comment could be tweaked: "if you're not part of a certain group, people from said group take you more seriously when you behave like someone from said group. It's part of how humans act -- we're just more comfortable around people were perceive as being 'like us'.

But the character of Allison Blake could just as easily be played by a white woman without changing one iota of her dialogue or apparent cultural/racial experience.

Taking this to a show that I'm more familiar with... could John Sheppard be played by a Latino? Could Ford have been played by an Asian? Could Weir have been played by a black woman? I don't see why not.

Keep in mind that, more often than not, TV shows are about successful, educated, career-oriented people. If the norms for these professions are somehow 'coded white'... I dunno. It would be interested to see the stats on the real ethnic breakdown of professions like you see on TV -- doctors, lawyers, cops/investigators, desert island refugees... Or the breakdown of ethnicity of the people making these TV shows... Or the breakdown of ethnicity in the demographics that are most sought after...

[tielan]

could John Sheppard be played by a Latino? Could Ford have been played by an Asian? Could Weir have been played by a black woman? I don't see why not.

'Could' is not the same as 'would'. Sure, these characters could be played by racial types other than those which were picked, but somehow I doubt that they would have.

In previous race discussions, various people have turned out with comment that "Stargate can't possibly be racist, because the casting call for the character type that Rodney ended up filling was originally for a black man."

However, i find myself wondering. Given that Jack/Nathan slash seems infinitely more popular than Jack/Henry in Eureka - in spite of the fact that Jack and Henry are 'best friends' in the way of John and Rodney - would a black scientist have been considered as "slashable" with John Sheppard as Rodney is considered?

Sure, there's no way to know short of hopping into the next universe over, but it's an interesting proposition.

Even looking at the Stargate Universe casting call: the characters who are labelled as "all ethnicities" are the geeky girl (asian) and the 'psycho' guy (will probably end up afro-american). Implicit in that call for "all ethicities" for those two characters is that the older military male, the younger military male, the socialite, and the scientist/geek should not be "ethnic".

You've got a point about shows being about "successful people" and that the norms of "success" are more likely to be associated "white" in our culture.

Ultimately, though, the point I wanted to make is that Allison Blake doesn't seem to either face any issues that might crop up for a woman of colour, or have a cultural background that's at all different from, say, the redheaded auditor lady who's causing trouble at GD. Which might very well be the case in Eureka's fictional universe, but seems unlikely in our own.

Re: Mixed race

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

I know hundreds of women like Allison Blake.

She rings true to me. I'd like to see more of her family aside from her son, but it's never even occurred to me that she wasn't what she looks like AND sounds like when she opens her mouth.

I think Allison Blake is coded white depending on who's looking at her (especially depending on what any one person thinks they sees/sees when they're looking at her).

To me, Allison Blake comes across as an educated woman. She doesn't strike me as a white woman, or an identified white woman because I know so many black woman, some of whom are African-Caribbean/Indo-Caribbean and others who are African or African American that it's a relief and a joy to see her there.

Like many of the beautiful, intelligent, accomplished and brilliant women-next-door that it's my blessing to be related to and privilege to know as friends (and at times rivals), I'm sure that when she's talking with people in her immediate family she might code-switch, but that might not mean she's talking ghetto or patois. But it might.

I've been looking at this: Does a character/person of obvious non-white descent need to have some kind of connection to the diaspora of her descent in order to be 'a valid portrayal' of her racial type?

Because I'm not sure I get it, I try to flip it. When I flip it, I get something like, does a character of obvious white descent need to have some kind of connection to whiteness, beyond the obvious, in order to be a valid portrayal of her racial type? What kind of white chick is an 'obviously' white chick supposed to be?

I wonder who Allison's people are, where her family lives/has lived, if she has sisters, cousins... What sorority she's in (if at all); who she's dated, what her neighborhoods (growing up) were like... But race doesn't come up in Eureka. I want to know who her family is and who her non-Eureka contacts are. But I don't think Allison Blake could just as easily be played by a white woman. There's something about the quickness of her mind, the elegance of her carriage, the warm sensuality of her affection (be it between friends or with a lover), and the harmonies of her voice that shout real woman to me. Meaning, real like the women I know who are blessed enough to be of color/nonwhite.

Salli Richardson, to me, is also a black woman (full stop). I see her as an accomplished actress, ghetto, and like nearly all the woman I know (who aren't white or white identifying) an adept code-switcher.

Edited for grammar.

Re: Mixed race

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

and people think i just ask if Gunn on Angel eats pork or is a Q dawg merely for amusement.

OK well I do ask it for the amusement value, and.

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

If you get a chance, rent Daddy's Little Girls. It's a Tyler Perry movie.

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

Seconded.

[cricketk.livejournal.com]

I really love that Eureka is colour- and gender-blind and that everyone is out pursuing their passions to the limit of their abilities. Eureka is pretty unashamedly fantasy - "sci-fi *fluff*" as someone mentioned earlier in the comments.

It's got it's sights very firmly set on the intersection of high-tech gadgets and interpersonal relations. The fun of Eureka is that even when there are no institutional problems with race or gender or sexuality or religion, the drama still comes from the relationships between the people - love, jealousy, envy, friendship... I love that the super-geniuses get to have personal lives.

For me, it wouldn't be any more satisfying as fiction to add tensions from outside the bubble-world of Eureka. And I pretty much see anyone displaying subtle or overt signs of racism as being shunned as stupid by the town - so what would it actually gain the show to portray that?

As to whether a character needs to be seen to be connected to a culture to be a 'valid portrayal' of racial type - perhaps you are right - particularly if the audience will not accept that character as real without that connection to ethnic culture.

Maybe it's being from outside the USA, but it never occurred to me that Alison Blake is not a realistic portrayal of a woman of colour.

[tielan]

I'm from outside the USA, and I'm asking the question. Part of the reason I'm asking the question is because of the different perceptions between USA-based race issues and the race issues from other parts of the globe.

I believe that there are thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of women like Allison Blake: intelligent, technical women of colour just doing their job. In that aspect, she's an accurate, realistic portrayal of a woman of colour.

I guess my own background shades my perspective: I might be an educated woman of colour in my country, and accepted and acceptable on that front, but my racial background and upbringing is an indelible part of me, too - little indications that I belong to a subculture that isn't "western" in origin, thought, or perspective.

MINDBOGGLING

[yinkawills.livejournal.com]

I read the original comment and was flabbergasted.

I am very similar to Alison Blake- black professional, middle class, single mother etc etc. And I speak BBC/received pronunciation English. And I'm from 'da hood'. And Ms UltraBlackMilitant (culturally, politically).Very connected to the African Diaspora.Yet, throughout my life, I've had white people wonder if I grew up in a white neighbourhood or had a white husband or am in some way different from the average black person.(The answer, btw is no, no and Hell no!)

Thing is, Im from the UK (my family is, I suspect from the same country as the person who described shadism being an issue)and there are a lot of black people here, both like and unlike me. We VARY. And as I have relatives in the US, some of whom are like Alison Blake, some not- I feel I can say with confidence that black people there too, are variabe.

Its great to see someone not playing a stereotype. Sad that people think the stereotype is the only way we are- instead of one of many aspects of us. Reminds me of being on a bus 2 years ago and a white passenger announcing I was a 'clever girl', as she was startled to see me reading a huge law book. Thing is, Im over 50 (that's me in the icon) I'd been a lawyer for over 25 years, and I was due to deliver a law lecture to university students the next day.But to her, what I was doing was coded to reflect someone other than the person she was seeing.

I wasnt insulted, I was amused.
I'm not offended by the comments on Alison Blake's characterisation, Im bemused.

I think that when black people live in majority white western countries, we are viewed in these limited ways. That affects what parts we get to play in films and tv. The few actors not constricted by these views are put in the exceptional/ transending race category.When to us, they're just regular black folks, with a talent. Entertainers who go along with these assumptions and play up to them- e.g some rap artists, a number of whom are from middle class backgrounds- are rewarded with work.

I dont think Eureka is race blind. Its just that as western society is so stratified via race, ethnicity and class, its jarring to encounter a tv programme that doesnt give these topics a disproportionate importance. Alison and Henry appear normal to me.They may be startling to a white viewer, used to seeing broadly drawn stereotypes.
Some people cope with the dissonance by saying they dont see these characters as black people, or people of colour (I laugh like a drain the way people tie themselves in knots in SGA fandom sometimes talking of these topics in relation to Teyla and Ronon and to Teal'c from SG1).

Frankly, I cant wait for the day when all this crap is just quaint, and inexplicable because its obsolete.

Hope thats in my lifetime.

[ceares.livejournal.com]

I guess that prompts the question on the flip side; does a character/person of obvious non-white descent need to have some kind of connection to the diaspora of her descent in order to be 'a valid portrayal' of her racial type?

You know I'd kind of like specifics of what you mean here. What exactly do you think she should be bringing to the character?

I mean basically this reads as if you're saying she's not 'black' enough.

I was raised lower-mid middleclass and while the members of my family weren't professional, or college grads they were/are diverse in speech, and interests and 'culture'.

If you walk in to my house, there's classical music by the stereo, horror novels on the bookcase and Leroy Neiman posters on the mantel. All belonging to my mother by the way-a black woman raised in the 50's and 60's in the south.

Basically I don't believe there is a black or ethnic experience-only your individual one. I don't identify with people from the hood any more or less than I identify with people from 90210, so I'm quite content with Allison being exactly who and what she is.

[tielan]

Basically I don't believe there is a black or ethnic experience - only your individual one

Something that I came to understand through the conversations of the last week.

I'd still like to see a well-written show subtly address gender/race issues through characters written in the way of Allison Blake and Henry Deacon, though.