vid clip on S4

[tielan]

Mallozzi and Mullie talk about SGA S4.

OMG! THERE'S A HUG BETWEEN TEYLA AND JOHN, BUT JOHN TAKES LONGER TO PUT HIS ARMS AROUND HER THAN HE DOES WHEN LIZZIE HUGS HIM IN SIEGE III!!1!11 THIS MUST MEAN HE LOVES LIZZIE MORE!

But, in my own mind, the hug looks very serious and Joe Mallozzi talks about 'revelations about relationships' at the same time as the hug. Which, as allisnow points out, might be an editing decision, but which majortrip thinks might be significant. :)

Either way, S4 is definitely back in the "Okay, I'm watching you guys. Let's see what you come up with" column. And yay for more Teyla and Ronon!

*goes to dig out that plotbunny*

Almost totally unrelated, does anyone else think that Robert C Cooper's nose must be fake? Because that nose on his face is just all kinds of wrong!

O_O

Comments

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Well, I haven't timed it, but I actually think it doesn't take him as long as it did with Lizzie.

That won't stop people from saying otherwise, of course ;)

[tielan]

Fandom is really very competitive when it comes down to it.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Gee, ya think?

Did you watch it yet?

[tielan]

Why, yes, I do think. Sometimes.

Yes, I watched it.

Pt.1

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

As for the hug shweir vs. JT...Yeah, it's been done by the shweir side of fandom. Check out JM's blog for a little snippet of more. By tomorrow that blog will be a rant fest, mark my words. I just find one to be far more significant than the other.

Well it is significant, JM's statement and the clip simultaneously. TPTB are the one's who did the editing. They know what they were putting out there and they know how people would read it. You don't create things like that without a reason. So that's one point.

Onwards to the hug itself. That hug is so significant it's not funny. People can marginalize it to a hug of friends, and what not. After my own level of "squeeing", I've just been overwhelmed by the symbolism clearly apparent.

I'll repeat a few things I had put forth on GW in regards to the hug.

First off, Teyla initiated the hug. Teyla has really never initiated physical contact. I mean there have been a few odd eps, I won't count rising, but eps like The Hive, with John's head on her lap. An ep like The Ark where she touches his stomach. I mean, they are minute in initiations, and can be pretty much explained away. The Hive, Teyla or others were afraid of serious injury to John and it would look funny if he woke up staring at another man's crotch. <---Not good for TPTB if it was Ronon---The Ronon/John shippers would go nutters. Then we have The Ark, where one can say, she never really touches him, just brushes his shirt a bit. *eyeroll* inducing

In any event, Teyla's side is key. Take for instance "Hide and Seek", Halling one of her people, and long time friend---when he lost Jinto, Teyla's way of support was a squeezing of his shoulder. She never engaged in physical contact. In the eps with Charin a touch of the hand, and tears. No physical embrace. But in this instant SHE makes the move and engages the embrace. That alone is amazing and completely separates Weir's hug of John with Teyla's John-hug. Weir hugged Jack the same way. She has engaged in some level of physical contact. Teyla is definitely not a toucher, excluding a few head touches.

Second situation, her face during the hug. I mean people can have many different reactions, but really Teyla's face pulled me in. I don't know the scenario or the situation, but the face just showed contentment. Just satisfaction and that's it. You know when you go on vacation and you first open your home door after 2 months of being away. YOu get this feeling and possibly expression where you didn't realize you missed it, but you like being back?! It's like that. Just content.

Pt.2

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

Continuation...

Third situation, the scene was like a sort of continuation or a pick up from The Gift ep if you get my drift. Specifically the entire nightmare sequence we witnessed. Teyla goes to his room. She's standing outside his door and it's at night. Why? What couldn't wait till morning? Why did she go seek him out? You can tell she seeked him out since he's in the door way of his room. Something serious is going down in this ep, and I want to know why.

Fourth, John. Watch John's face, he has the exact same look like in "The Gift" after the sparring scene and she's telling him about the nightmares. Actually the whole scene reminds me of a revisit of "The Gift." His expression is no different. But this time she can see it and so I figured he was worried, even a bit unsure. As for the reason...I don't have a clue.

Unfortunately they didn't give us the whole thing of the hug. There's definitely more than meets the eye and I wonder the ending of the hug. You can tell there's more. I also must give props to RL in her execution of the hug with Teyla and John. I love how she slowly went up to John and how she put her arms around him. It was slow and lacks that whole leap attack or invasion of privacy I got from a certain other hug. That's just me. I just find Teyla fully aware of John's rather skittish behaviour towards expressiona of emotion (or PDAs) and so she moves very slowly around him, to let him prepare.

I noticed that her actions similar in "Sateda", I noticed she did the same at the end of "Phantoms" and of course who can forget her actions with John in "Sunday." "Sunday" was fully telling, "How are you feeling John?" and she wasn't gonna take his off-handed BS flippancy act. She called him on it, and let her in. She wasn't forceful.

All in all for those who aren't romantic shippers, just Teyla's initiation is enough to being very important factor in wondering about the dynamics of "the hug." This is as significant as John initiating the "head touch" in The Return I.

Re: Pt.2

[tielan]

By tomorrow that blog will be a rant fest, mark my words.

Isn't Mallozzi's blog always a rant fest? I mean, there are the people who are unhappy about Elizabeth, people who are unhappy about Carter, people who are unhappy that their OTP isn't going to come to fruition, people who are unhappy that the show isn't being run exactly the way they want it down to the tiniest character detail...

The comments in Mallozzi's blog are like one big kindergarten temper tantrum - except in this case, the temper tantrum is being thrown by (alleged) adults.

...and I'm impressed with how much you've thought this through. I just saw the hug and heard Mallozzi talk about relationship developments and figured there'd be people who'd be all OH NOES! about it, and going rantalicious.

Re: Pt.2

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

Isn't Mallozzi's blog always a rant fest? I mean, there are the people who are unhappy about Elizabeth, people who are unhappy about Carter, people who are unhappy that their OTP isn't going to come to fruition, people who are unhappy that the show isn't being run exactly the way they want it down to the tiniest character detail...

You're right, but the tie that binds is that all those people come from ONE camp and complain in one long post. Check out the first rant, in regards to Le Vid (of so much talk), on JM's blog. It has all the elements you just pointed out---and they made their camp very clear. It's not just a people hate this or a people hate that. It's a just one long whinging bonanza over and over and over and over and over again.

Made up of the same identifying processes, primarily Anonymous, based on the aspects of the post, a Weir head or Shweir (process of elimination isn't too hard to do)--- easily confirmed by the fact of something along the lines of "JT hug?! Shweir is so much better..." Then of course added as finale; as you say in the above complaints, "Why Carter to replace Weir...If it's not broke don't fix." On and on in that way.

Oh and did I add, "I'm not gonna watch the show." <----At this point, cry me a river!!

...and I'm impressed with how much you've thought this through.
Yeah, me too. I'm an over thinker by nature, but it just kept bugging me. It became a slight point of contention for me after I looked at it with an unbiased eye. It irks me to no end. It's not a good or bad feeling, but keeps making me think. I get some JTers are squeeing themselves to oblivion and I contributed to that, until of course I heard words of "sensual" then I started moving back. That term has the potential of blowing up in our faces, especially if she was thanking him for toilet paper.

I just find that this could easily be OOC of Teyla based on what we've seen so far. I understand friends behaving like that. But we're Earthlings first. I get that, so you know Weir doing her "Leap and Invade" to mimick "Destroy and Conquer" is not surprising, if she could wrap her legs around the guys waist, like she was in high school it probably wouldn't phase me, cause that was how High School and invasive her looks appeared to me.

I don't find Teyla's move in anyway high school, she's just not a High School kinda person---she could do better. Weir on the other hand, established her adolescent tendancies to me in eps like No Man's Land. But on topic, I will say the physical embrace is "surprising" sure it could be explained away taking into consideration, a paraphrase by JM...'with her time with the Earthlings she's picked up somethings.' <---I just find it too easy. I want to know the reason she did it? What does it mean in the Athosian culture, if it's actually accepted? Based on past intimacies of her, this embrace is radical to say the least.

Meh, I have to watch the episode and really make my conclusions on what I see and hear. But RL's execution with Teyla was really good considering Joe's usage of John, and John's feelings on feelings. ^_^ It was slow, encompassing and fitting (meaning they looked comfortable overall). John just had his worried look from The Gift on. Nice.

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen anything as such on my flist yet, nor have I seen the vid. But I will say that doesn't bode well for sparky shippers, especially after Lizzie's you know what. And it'll probably tick off that side of fandom a little bit more.

I'd say the hug would be significant, too. There were some major sheyla hints over the the back end of season 3, not to mention that there was virtually no sparky, aside from a little in TRW. And TPTB do seem set on sheyla.

[tielan]

Truly told, I don't think anything has actually "boded well" for Shep/Weir since day one.

The interactions of John towards Elizabeth and Elizabeth towards John have been pretty much identical to their interactions with other characters of the opposite sex. Elizabeth acts flirty with all the guys - you said so yourself in chat the other night. John hovers between flirty-challenging with the women, casually friendly, and emotionally uncertain.

Then, too, I distinctly recall an interview with Joe Flanigan, where he said that Sheppard and Teyla have significant chemistry and the show was written that way. Since he plays John Sheppard, I'm inclined to take his word on the matter of romantic/emotional chemistry.

So I probably wouldn't say that John/Teyla is solely in the minds of TPTB.

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

Not really, but there was a bit more room to move, being new.

I agree, but the only thing is, is that there were less cute guys to flirt with in season 1. And that Sheppard responded in kind, more than any other character, did form a basis at that early point. If things started like in say, season 2, where Lorne was there, or season 3, when Rodney realises there's a pretty woman flirting with him, it might have been different, there may not even have been a sparky ship.

And it's always been said that Sheppard/Teyla was the ship being pushed, and understood as such.

But none of it really changes that there is a good portion of fandom that does ship sheppard/weir,

[tielan]

I can buy that there's a basis in it from S1. I didn't mind either John/Teyla or Shep/Weir to begin with. But there's not just what began something, but how it continues and how it ends.

Subsequent episodes made me decide that pursuing Shep/Weir as a romantic pairing would make Elizabeth look really bad as a strong, female character, and rather than give up on her as a strong, female character, I gave up on the pairing.

Truly told, while there were all kinds of pairing bases in S1, by S2, they were narrowing down, and S3 has made it fairly clear that they're angling for a John/Teyla dynamic.

While this isn't going to change people's fanon preferences, I see one's fanon preferences as entirely different to what's happening in canon.

Canonically, it would appear that John/Teyla is in the ascendant, although I'll hold any glee in reserve for it actually happening: Stargate PTB are not known for doing resolution.

Fanonically, people are free ship what they please. But it helps when they're capable of discerning the line between what they want to see, and what canon is showing them. I really really want to see Liz/Ronon - and that's not going to happen in canon.

Truthfully, there's still all kinds of possibilities for shipping in SGA fanon as long as the characters are friendly to each other.

[astropoet.livejournal.com]

The fun of being a Sheppard/Weir shipper in the beginning was because it wasn't "canon" as such and we could play around with it with no fear of it being canon. S/T was canon as far as we could see. It was young and it was innocent, and loads of us frolicked around writing fan-fic and having fun.

Then some people thought it should become canon and it quickly became much less fun. And the resulting ship-wars put me off shipping for anyone EVER AGAIN in any tv program (time to stop watching "Bones"), except for fun (Teyla/Rodney be still my beating heart!)

Someone timed both hugs? Really? Have they nothing better to do? Funnily enuf the eppy with that hug in it was the day I stopped liking SGA and watching it seriously.

[tielan]

Then some people thought it should become canon and it quickly became much less fun.

I have to say, that's pretty much what put me off Shep/Weir: the shippers. :-/

Not that the John/Teyla fans are pure as the driven snow in that respect: there've been some who I've wanted to take a brickbat to. I'm sure that there are some J/T fans who want to take a brickbat to me!

Someone timed both hugs? Really? Have they nothing better to do?

I hate to break this to you, but this is a fandom that developed as an off-shoot of SG1 fandom, where someone once counted up the number of minutes their favourite character had in an episode and then complained that he didn't have enough screen time.

So, yes. Fannish nature being what it is, I'm fairly certain some Shweir somewhere timed the hug and is either "triumphing" that Shep isn't as enthusiastic in his acceptance of Teyla's hug, or doesn't really want to hug her, or took longer to hug her back than he did to hug Elizabeth.

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

like ZOMG, SQUEE!

I'm trying to place where the hug would fall in and I think, logically, it would either be in "Missing" when she finds out the Athosians are missing because it looks like a support type hug. I think it could fall anywhere around that episode, really.

I think that video alone upped my readiness for S4 by ten notches. Bring it on, Mullie and Mallozzi! So much for the, "They're going to ruin our show!!!1!!" whinges I heard at the beginning of the year. Although I'm a tad disappointed by Sheppard playing Kirk...again. Can't we give the

[tielan]

You know, the funny thing is that, while the hug is nice, I'm more reassured by Mallozzi's repetition of "Teyla and Ronon are getting more development this year."

I could do without hugs or ship or kisses or whatever - as long as Teyla and Ronon got more screentime, character development, lines per episode, and chances to save John and Rodney's asses while those two look on helplessly.

Oh, and as long as there was team love. BRING ON THE TEAM LOVE!

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

I could agree with "Missing", but with more thinking I'm on the fence about that. Why seek him out? The scene seems to fit two scenarios, he's on his way out and she comes to see him, as he's coming out. Or, he was in his room and she knocks for entrance to see him. In scene just looks like an almost remake or change of The Gift dream scene, and I wonder if she'd come for comfort. Because knowing John in the past, he'd probably seek her out.

On the point of kirking, he's not. On another note, John coul do what he wants, and bed who he wants. I see no ring on his finger or an emotional romantic commitment.

In relation to Teyla, I get the feeling this may be after Travelers.

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

I rectify my statement on Missing. I forgot the use of MALPs that was used on Sateda. She could see her place ransacked, but John and co have other duties, so she's telling him of her own duty to her people. It works.

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

On the point of kirking, he's not.

I agree, but there's probably going to be some great uproar with "Travelers" because another attractive alien woman's kissing him and we can't have that. *eyeroll* There was a big wank storm when that actress's name and part were first released because simply because she was pretty. Something to do with the Pegasus Galaxy having a shortage of normal or ugly women, which I've begun to notice as well, but that's lower down on the priority scale regarding the show.

I do think "Travelers" would be a right fit for the hug. I could see an, "Oh Thank God, you're back, we thought you were dead" hug, but Teyla's really not one to hug after near death experiences...or so we've seen, at least. I think the Hug could fall anywhere between "Travelers" and "The Seer" really, but I picked "Missing" because Teyla just looked like she was about to fall apart and needed support.

And yes, team love is a must. I'd rather have team love than 'ship vindication any day.

[sjhw-tolerance.livejournal.com]

::refrains from making any comments regarding RCC:: Oh wait, I'll just say that his nose is compensation for being dickless.

[tielan]

*snorts*

I should have expected that you'd come in with something like that, hon. :)

I think that S4 of Atlantis is going to be a lot like S4 of SG1.

Namely that all the Jack/Daniel John/Rodney shippers are going to go nutso if there's anything pointing to Sam/Jack John/Teyla - at which point Sam Teyla will become the worthless whore of the SGC Atlantis, intent on luring Jack John away from his one true love Daniel Rodney.

Oh, wait. The Shep/Weirs have already stolen a march on them...

It's going to be a fun year in SGA fandom. I can tell right now.

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

True enough. And it doesn't look like a lot of the Shep/McKay slashers like or appreciate the comments and actions coming from the Shep/Weir shippers.

Drama!!! ^_^

[imaginary-iby.livejournal.com]

*sniffle sniffle* The trailer doesn't seem to want to work for me. I'll have to investigate my QuickTime tomorrow.

I take it it's a sweet moment?

Ah, so many months to wait!

[vaberella.livejournal.com]

In LoveConquers latest LJ entry she has the wmv or avi versions if you want to see.

Here's the link http://loveconquers14.livejournal.com/11643.html. She was real nice about it, so leave her a thanks. ^_^

[madjm.livejournal.com]

Well, it sounds like they have the right ideas for season four, but I guess we'll see. And I have to confess that I squeed a little over The Hug. It looked so serious ...

[majortrip.livejournal.com]

I never guessed that John and Elizabeth had any romantic inclination, even after S1. Never. It wasn't until I went to GW and found out what shipping was and that fandom created a S/W ship. I found it amusing at the time, and still do, especially the vehemence with which S/T has been denied. I have my own theories why, but I won't pollute your journal with that. :P

Anyway, I don't think it'll be an overtly romantic hug. He does caress her back a bit, and they both look sad, so something bad must've happened. That's my guess. It could take place in any of the first five (at least) episodes, so it's anyone's guess. I think it looks lovely, but without knowing the episode or the context, I can't put forth many theories.

[tielan]

I have my own theories why, but I won't pollute your journal with that. :P

But I'd love to hear them sometime. :)