Spoils Of War - aspects of Teyla, pregnancy, and feminism

[tielan]

It's rather interesting how polarizing this episode is for Teyla fans.

There seems to be largely two opinions held by the fandom on this episode:

1. It was an awesome episode for Teyla, where she overpowers a Wraith Queen and saves her team-mates, while still fighting and protecting her child.
2. It was a dreadful episode for Teyla, where pregnant = helpless and needing to be told what a pregnant woman can/cannot do.

I'm primarily of the 1st group, although I understand the reaction to #2 as well. That was part of my reaction - and still is.

My rundown of Spoils:

In military terms, John is quite within his rights to say that he won't have Teyla on his team. He's the commander, it's his decision. In personal terms, he was a bit of a bastard about it - which Teyla called him on in the mess hall scene. He ate his slice of humble pie, and then had to swallow when they discovered Teyla could fly the ship.

Military terms don't apply to Teyla since she's neither of the military, nor of the expedition. It may have been suggested or implied that she should inform the team of any change in her condition, but they can't force her to do so in any meaningful way without being really stupid about it. "If you don't tell us you're pregnant, we're going to sever contact with you and not help you find your people" has all the maturity of a five year-old throwing a temper tanty.

In personal terms, Teyla was well within her right and reason to keep quiet about her pregnancy. Given the status of her people and her need to find them, I think that she would balance up the need for John to know vs. her need to be out there, and make the call her way. I think Teyla was justified in wanting to keep going out on missions - in the 'jumper scene on their way to the hiveship, she more or less tells John that she can't stay cooped up or she'll go mad.

I understand that.

It did irk a little that the ending had a "John was sooooo right!" angle - one which certain portions of the fandom seemed to pick up and run with as "See? Teyla was WRONG WRONG WRONG to hide her pregnancy and want to be on the team!"

However, as a hardcore Teyla-fan where the secondary characters of interest are John and Ronon and only really if Teyla's there, too, I'm considerably more used to getting the bad as well as the good when it comes to Teyla; it's lowered my expectations of what TPTB will do with her. There is no episode in all of 80+ where Teyla's concerns are central to the plot, where her actions are central to the resolution, and her judgement is considered to be the right and correct way to go.

Considering that Spoils Of War got 2 out of 3, I'm cheering for all I'm worth.

In the end, I look at Teyla's decision to cease going out on dangerous missions like this: It was her decision.

At the point where they're on the balcony, it's Teyla who makes the choice to leave. Granted, John took her off the team at the start of the mission, but he brought her back on once it was seen she was needed. Would he have taken her off again? Maybe. Probably. But she has already decided she's not going to go back on missions for her son's sake. For her son's sake, not because John told her she couldn't. He might have made the call that ultimately prevailed, but Teyla chose it in the end.

Maybe it's sophistry; maybe I'm just not enough of a 'feminist' to be enraged about it. I understand the frustration at the implication that a pregnant woman needed to be told what she could and could not do by a man; I just think there are other angles at work here, and it's not the be-all and end-all of the way to interpret it.

Could TPTB do better? Yes. They could. But they haven't. C'est la vie.

Comments

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm definitely in the first group.

I don't think that TPTB have utilized Teyla as much as they would have if... well, if you or I were on the staff ;) But I can't do anything about that, other than beg Joe for more, so I enjoy what we get. SoW made me happy in many different ways.

Atlantis - both the show and the city - gets to cherry-pick which regulations it follows and which it doesn't. Sam even kind of points that out in Midway. I think that John made the right decision, that he was a bastard about it, but how boring would it have been if everyone had had the same reason as Ronon? Plus in my happy land, he was a bastard because he was hurt and a little jealous and whatnot, so I didn't mind except that I wanted to hug Teyla. Besides, Teyla showed that she was still valuable to the team... and then came to the same conclusion, that going on like nothing had changed would be a mistake.

[tielan]

In terms of conflict for the show - sure, John's reaction was perfect and necessary. It was appropriate for his character and his background - just as Teyla's was appropriate for her character and her background.

Which a lot of fans (not you, mind) seem to miss: that both of them reacted in a way appropriate to their history, culture, and reading of the situation. The 'right/wrong' dichotomy isn't so clear-cut. What prevails is not necessarily 'right' - there isn't really a 'right/wrong' in this situation since that assumes an overarching moral standard, not two people from two vastly different cultures trying to come to a common ground on this matter.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on all of that, definitely. I still got a flavor, though, of "right-thinking man knows better than emotional pregnant woman what's best for her and her child", and that's completely a me thing, a sensitivity to that kind of treatment from a group of male writers who haven't had the best track record in dealing with their female characters. I'm touchy about that stuff, yes. *g* I don't think they were doing it consciously, but, even done unintentionally, it has chauvanistic overtones. I can see Teyla acting the way she did, and I can see John acting the way he did, it all works for the characters, and yet I wish it hadn't been John who "knew better", who was proven right in the end. It just makes me itch, you know? Doesn't mean I don't think she was awesome in the ep, though, because she was, and I was behind everything she did. My first pregnancy was, ahem, unexpected, too, and I totally sympathize with her dilemma, and with his spazzing out over it, as well. I just wish I didn't get that "your biases are showing" feeling about the writers from it.

[tielan]

It just makes me itch, you know?

Yes, I know. And I get the "biases showing" feeling from it as well - as if their sidelining/damselling of the female characters didn't already show it - but I tried to be pragmatic about it.

It would be nice to have Teyla's judgement entirely right for once - no qualifications, no "a guy knows better", just "yeah, her decision was the right one, mine was the wrong one" - just once.

But I'm not holding my breath on that front, either.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about this some more, about why I can see the male biases of the writers and, while I dislike them, I still watch and enjoy the show--and I do consider myself a feminist, no question, there--and I think it's because, when I think about what the show is and what it isn't and what I want it to be and what expectations I should reasonably have, I decide that it is not, in fact, an ensemble show. If it were, or if it were supposed to be, if they were actually intending and trying to write it that way, then I'd have more of a foundation to grouse from--not that I won't and don't grouse, anyway, because it's what I do. But that isn't what it is; it's a buddy show masquerading as an ensemble show, but not actually pretending very hard. It's the John and Rodney show, the same way SG1 was the Jack and Daniel show. It's a show written by geeky white guys about two geeky white guys saving the universe, two buddies, one a (quirky) scientist and one a (sort of odd) military man, white, middle-class (or upper-class, as we now know) white males who like each other, despite their differences (which, really? Not so vast, considering the similarities) and have a fun, funny, interesting, possibly subtextually homoerotic relationship. (That last part is debatable, I know, but, sheesh, where are they going with John and Rodney, lately, if not there?) And that's both SG1 and SGA that I'm talking about; that could describe either show, obviously. It's Jack and Daniel andSamandTeal'c, or John and Rodney andallthoseotherpeople, not an ensemble. Everyone but the two main dudes, the two buddies, are secondary. It's been that way since the Stargate movie.

So these shows aren't BtVS or AtS, they're TS or SPN or even XF. There are more secondary characters on these two shows, and they get more screen time than on the average buddy show, and the core four-person team on each show comes in at a strong second place, but, really? It's about the two white guys saving our asses with their mad white guys skillz. So, if the female characters and the characters of color get short shrift, it's not only because the writers are blinkered morons; it's because they're intended to--everyone but the two white dudes will be secondary, underused, afterthoughts, because that's how buddy shows are. (They don't have to be, but they usually are.)

Even the actors can be mistaken (or fooled) about the ensemble/buddy dynamic thing, I think--some of what Torri's said about her role struck me as her having been surprised at the limits of what she was given to do. Back on TS, the actress who played Carolyn left after the first season because she'd believed it was going to be an ensemble show and that she'd have a bigger role. The people creating these shows may actually be representing them as ensemble shows, may actually think that's what they're doing, to a point. But they're really making Starsky and Hutch with some other people thrown in, some of whom have boobs for the guys (and the guy viewers) to enjoy looking at.

I dunno, maybe that's a little harsh. That's what I think is going on, though. Doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the shows, or that I don't wish they'd make them true ensemble shows, but it is what it is, so I go with it. So maybe I'm going to be less "they're doing it wrong!" about it and more "I wish they'd do it this way, instead, but, whatever," which is probably what you're doing already. I just take longer roads to get to the same places other people do. *g*

[caladria.livejournal.com]

This is possibly going to be rambling...

I liked Spoils, I really did - because no matter what the eventual outcome is, seeing Teyla unsure about her own decisions seems like a pretty rare thing. And seeing her question herself, and her decision, and her place on the team so openly.. (I mean, there were the hints that she questioned her choice to leave the Athosians to join the Atlantis expedition, but they never bothered to really sit down and show us, and that was in season 1. Three years ago.) Because she also comes off (to me) as the most level headed character that Stargate has seen (either series - Teal'c gets excluded for the single minded Jaffa revenge bloody mindedness). And imho TPTB seem to write best when they're forced out of their default mode for each character - taking Rodney away from the science (Tao of Rodney), John away from the light-hearted wiseass (The Storm/The Eye), Ronan.. (actually, Ronan in the foreground at all is pretty good. Sateda was awesome). And Teyla with torn loyalties - between Atlantis, and her son, and her people.

As for keeping her pregnant secret, I'm in the camp that yes, the sensible thing to do would have been to tell John. Because... it's relevant. Because she could've ended up unconscious and miscarrying on an alien planet after being shot and fed on by the Wraith, and at that point it would be good for her team to know. Doesn't mean that she didn't have reasons not to. Doesn't mean that she can't have complex and contradictory reasons not to, and everything turning out alright doesn't make it the "right" choice. Or the "wrong". Shades of grey. And John's decision couldn't have been anything else. Because... you're not going to find the show where the heavily-pregnant woman goes out and gets shot at. Which leaves three people who could make the decision to take her off the team temporarily, because someone has to. I just.. Teyla's been physically capable as long as she's been around. Adjusting to the having to sit back, when her people are missing, that's tough. And she fought it a little. Because she's a protector and not being able to protect her people is difficult. Especially when she's all they've got. And yes, John is male, but he's also effectively her CO. It's his team. Given that I don't think a female team leader could have/would have made a different choice...

Bah. There's probably a way to explain what I'm thinking and actually make sense...

[tielan]

Personally, I liked Spoils for getting to see Teyla kick ass. :)

In such a situation, I'd have advised her to tell John, too. But I'm suggesting that she's not BAD STUPID WRONG not to have told him - that she's got her own reasons and wishes and desires and issues battering at her and without the whole Earth-security-protect-feeble-women angle that is part-and-parcel of our perception of women, pregnancy, and feminity, she might not have considered it important in the way that John and the viewer does.

I'm not seeing John as BAD STUPID WRONG in his decision to say she's off his team, either - he doesn't have a choice any more than Teyla has a choice after she's faced the Wraith Queen. It's an unacceptable outcome to have Teyla injured or the rest of the team endangered while she's pregnant; to Teyla, it's unacceptable to risk her unborn son or her team while she's pregnant.

I was discussing this with allisnow and she asked, "Well, what difference would it have made if it had been Sam or Elizabeth making the decision and calling the shots?"

I don't think it would have made a difference in the outcome if it was a woman leading the team or standing Teyla down.

Bah. There's probably a way to explain what I'm thinking and actually make sense...

Difficult, isn't it? The layers of meaning and understanding, comprehension and perspective... But interesting all the same!

[bruinsfan.livejournal.com]

Because... you're not going to find the show where the heavily-pregnant woman goes out and gets shot at.

Well, there was Peacekeeper Wars...

For the most part, you're right. And there are very real, legitimate reasons that heavily pregnant women are advised to avoid strenuous exertion in general, nevermind avoid being shot at. I don't think John's decision was wrong per se, it's the fact that he arrived at it in an apparent fit of pique and announced it in a patronizing manner. If his first impulse had been to congratulate Teyla and then later he'd reluctantly informed her that he'd have to take her off active duty, there would have been few objections.

[cala-jane.livejournal.com]

You have a point, and truth be told it were your posts that made me realize that Teyla might not be treated as well in the show and the fandom as I might've thought.

But I'd like to use this space to point out how cool was Lorne in this episode. Just because I can.

That said.
Stargate Atlantis, while awesome and really open to all kinds of plot twists and developments, is still really immersed in the genre. Which means it really suffers from the same flaw all the other tvshows. Which is not treating women like equal characters in all possible aspects.
PLus pregnancy is a bit of a touchy subject, especially with all the writers being male. They might be awesome, but guys are terrible with that stuff...

Not that I'm defending them. I just like to point out different perspectives.
Like that maybe John overreacted because he was hurt Teyla didnt tell him sooner. (Also: Ronon is made of awesome. Not that I'll be naming kids after him anytime soon) But that's just a theory...

I'll shut up now.

[tielan]

Stargate Atlantis, while awesome and really open to all kinds of plot twists and developments, is still really immersed in the genre.

That's very true. On the other hand, I don't think it means that we should just accept it.

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

I finally found the meta (http://lamardeuse.livejournal.com/456380.html) I was looking for on this subject. It's a few weeks old and much of it's John squee, but a lot of interesting points are made. Especially by women who have been pregnant or know others who have been pregnant in risky job situations.

I just rewatched SoW tonight and I'm still not getting a real strong anti-feminism vibe from it. But this is what I've decided: John wasn't questioning Teyla's ability to kick ass, take care of herself, and generally be the same person she was before she got pregnant. That's what Teyla wants to believe his problem is, as the scene at the beginning of the episode with her on the stationary bike shows and the numerous times she tells him that she's more than capable to handle going on a mission.

In my perspective, John was questioning her dedication to the team and her willingness to sacrifice herself for one of them in a firefight. It's not that John knows better than her, but that he expects that her priorities are probably going to change. And they are, but Teyla doesn't quite realize how much they've changed until the life of her son is threatened. To me, BAMSR and SoW were about Teyla finally embracing her pregnancy, dealing with the fact that she's changing - physically and emotionally - and accepting that, at least for the next few months, she's not going to be the same Teyla as she has been.

Hope that makes some kind of sense. Is sleep deprived.

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

It's not that John knows better than her, but that he expects that her priorities are probably going to change. And they are, but Teyla doesn't quite realize how much they've changed until the life of her son is threatened.

But that still boils down to: John knows better than Teyla what's going to happen in her own heart. With any man and any woman, that would read sketchy--but with John and Teyla, it's sufficiently improbable to border on the offensive...unless you actually buy into the notion that of course he would know better than the woman-in-denial.

[c425cc33.livejournal.com]

I just watched this episode last night and it really bothered me on several levels. I'm sure my husband is tired of my rambling. Your meta came just in time. So, in random order:

Perhaps because I've just watched LOST S2, I am so tired of "parents sacrificing everything/everyone else because of their children" plot devices. Teyla whining about the wraith queen attacking her child and relenting at the end was so disappointing. Maybe that attitude *is* true in Real Life, but as my mother would say, "I live it, why do I have to watch it?"

Sheppard is what he is: uncomfortable with emotional situations, particularly with women. Over and over again we've seen him flinch as a woman throws her arms around him. Those S1 days -courting- ascended women are long gone. He doesn't know how to deal with Teyla's reveal and so he just lashes out with the only rhetoric he knows. I don't think his behavior was meant to be chauvinistic for its own sake and I certainly don't think Flanigan played it that way. As for an apology at the end? Well, he believes he did the right thing even though he is still grateful to Teyla for saving their butts. His slightly anxious "get her phone number" bit towards the end struck me a come-on he did because he knew he *should* and he seemed very uncomfortable about it. Maybe I just have slash goggles on that.

Hey, how come every female character in this episode was wearing spray-on low cut tops> Plenty of cleavage to go around (no pun intended). Forget Carter trying to zip up that jacket. How about that sweet little maroon lace top Teyla wore in the mess? And that bounty hunter lady (forgot her name)? She's the leader of their group and she's wearing something off-the-shoulder that looks like it might fall of altogether? The wraith queen's bodice made me really nervous whenever she would bend over Sheppard! Finally, Elizabeth in leather. Yes. So, if anything sends a chauvinist message to me, those wardrobe choices do.

Yeah, TPTB could and should do better. I want Teyla to be choice #1, but I don't want her to spend the rest of the season complaining about some threat to her baby's life.

[allisnow.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm definitely in the first group.

I don't think that TPTB have utilized Teyla as much as they would have if... well, if you or I were on the staff ;) But I can't do anything about that, other than beg Joe for more, so I enjoy what we get. SoW made me happy in many different ways.

Atlantis - both the show and the city - gets to cherry-pick which regulations it follows and which it doesn't. Sam even kind of points that out in Midway. I think that John made the right decision, that he was a bastard about it, but how boring would it have been if everyone had had the same reason as Ronon? Plus in my happy land, he was a bastard because he was hurt and a little jealous and whatnot, so I didn't mind except that I wanted to hug Teyla. Besides, Teyla showed that she was still valuable to the team... and then came to the same conclusion, that going on like nothing had changed would be a mistake.

[tielan]

In terms of conflict for the show - sure, John's reaction was perfect and necessary. It was appropriate for his character and his background - just as Teyla's was appropriate for her character and her background.

Which a lot of fans (not you, mind) seem to miss: that both of them reacted in a way appropriate to their history, culture, and reading of the situation. The 'right/wrong' dichotomy isn't so clear-cut. What prevails is not necessarily 'right' - there isn't really a 'right/wrong' in this situation since that assumes an overarching moral standard, not two people from two vastly different cultures trying to come to a common ground on this matter.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on all of that, definitely. I still got a flavor, though, of "right-thinking man knows better than emotional pregnant woman what's best for her and her child", and that's completely a me thing, a sensitivity to that kind of treatment from a group of male writers who haven't had the best track record in dealing with their female characters. I'm touchy about that stuff, yes. *g* I don't think they were doing it consciously, but, even done unintentionally, it has chauvanistic overtones. I can see Teyla acting the way she did, and I can see John acting the way he did, it all works for the characters, and yet I wish it hadn't been John who "knew better", who was proven right in the end. It just makes me itch, you know? Doesn't mean I don't think she was awesome in the ep, though, because she was, and I was behind everything she did. My first pregnancy was, ahem, unexpected, too, and I totally sympathize with her dilemma, and with his spazzing out over it, as well. I just wish I didn't get that "your biases are showing" feeling about the writers from it.

[tielan]

It just makes me itch, you know?

Yes, I know. And I get the "biases showing" feeling from it as well - as if their sidelining/damselling of the female characters didn't already show it - but I tried to be pragmatic about it.

It would be nice to have Teyla's judgement entirely right for once - no qualifications, no "a guy knows better", just "yeah, her decision was the right one, mine was the wrong one" - just once.

But I'm not holding my breath on that front, either.

[caladria.livejournal.com]

This is possibly going to be rambling...

I liked Spoils, I really did - because no matter what the eventual outcome is, seeing Teyla unsure about her own decisions seems like a pretty rare thing. And seeing her question herself, and her decision, and her place on the team so openly.. (I mean, there were the hints that she questioned her choice to leave the Athosians to join the Atlantis expedition, but they never bothered to really sit down and show us, and that was in season 1. Three years ago.) Because she also comes off (to me) as the most level headed character that Stargate has seen (either series - Teal'c gets excluded for the single minded Jaffa revenge bloody mindedness). And imho TPTB seem to write best when they're forced out of their default mode for each character - taking Rodney away from the science (Tao of Rodney), John away from the light-hearted wiseass (The Storm/The Eye), Ronan.. (actually, Ronan in the foreground at all is pretty good. Sateda was awesome). And Teyla with torn loyalties - between Atlantis, and her son, and her people.

As for keeping her pregnant secret, I'm in the camp that yes, the sensible thing to do would have been to tell John. Because... it's relevant. Because she could've ended up unconscious and miscarrying on an alien planet after being shot and fed on by the Wraith, and at that point it would be good for her team to know. Doesn't mean that she didn't have reasons not to. Doesn't mean that she can't have complex and contradictory reasons not to, and everything turning out alright doesn't make it the "right" choice. Or the "wrong". Shades of grey. And John's decision couldn't have been anything else. Because... you're not going to find the show where the heavily-pregnant woman goes out and gets shot at. Which leaves three people who could make the decision to take her off the team temporarily, because someone has to. I just.. Teyla's been physically capable as long as she's been around. Adjusting to the having to sit back, when her people are missing, that's tough. And she fought it a little. Because she's a protector and not being able to protect her people is difficult. Especially when she's all they've got. And yes, John is male, but he's also effectively her CO. It's his team. Given that I don't think a female team leader could have/would have made a different choice...

Bah. There's probably a way to explain what I'm thinking and actually make sense...

[tielan]

Personally, I liked Spoils for getting to see Teyla kick ass. :)

In such a situation, I'd have advised her to tell John, too. But I'm suggesting that she's not BAD STUPID WRONG not to have told him - that she's got her own reasons and wishes and desires and issues battering at her and without the whole Earth-security-protect-feeble-women angle that is part-and-parcel of our perception of women, pregnancy, and feminity, she might not have considered it important in the way that John and the viewer does.

I'm not seeing John as BAD STUPID WRONG in his decision to say she's off his team, either - he doesn't have a choice any more than Teyla has a choice after she's faced the Wraith Queen. It's an unacceptable outcome to have Teyla injured or the rest of the team endangered while she's pregnant; to Teyla, it's unacceptable to risk her unborn son or her team while she's pregnant.

I was discussing this with allisnow and she asked, "Well, what difference would it have made if it had been Sam or Elizabeth making the decision and calling the shots?"

I don't think it would have made a difference in the outcome if it was a woman leading the team or standing Teyla down.

Bah. There's probably a way to explain what I'm thinking and actually make sense...

Difficult, isn't it? The layers of meaning and understanding, comprehension and perspective... But interesting all the same!

[bruinsfan.livejournal.com]

Because... you're not going to find the show where the heavily-pregnant woman goes out and gets shot at.

Well, there was Peacekeeper Wars...

For the most part, you're right. And there are very real, legitimate reasons that heavily pregnant women are advised to avoid strenuous exertion in general, nevermind avoid being shot at. I don't think John's decision was wrong per se, it's the fact that he arrived at it in an apparent fit of pique and announced it in a patronizing manner. If his first impulse had been to congratulate Teyla and then later he'd reluctantly informed her that he'd have to take her off active duty, there would have been few objections.

[cala-jane.livejournal.com]

You have a point, and truth be told it were your posts that made me realize that Teyla might not be treated as well in the show and the fandom as I might've thought.

But I'd like to use this space to point out how cool was Lorne in this episode. Just because I can.

That said.
Stargate Atlantis, while awesome and really open to all kinds of plot twists and developments, is still really immersed in the genre. Which means it really suffers from the same flaw all the other tvshows. Which is not treating women like equal characters in all possible aspects.
PLus pregnancy is a bit of a touchy subject, especially with all the writers being male. They might be awesome, but guys are terrible with that stuff...

Not that I'm defending them. I just like to point out different perspectives.
Like that maybe John overreacted because he was hurt Teyla didnt tell him sooner. (Also: Ronon is made of awesome. Not that I'll be naming kids after him anytime soon) But that's just a theory...

I'll shut up now.

[tielan]

Stargate Atlantis, while awesome and really open to all kinds of plot twists and developments, is still really immersed in the genre.

That's very true. On the other hand, I don't think it means that we should just accept it.

[greenconverses.livejournal.com]

I finally found the meta (http://lamardeuse.livejournal.com/456380.html) I was looking for on this subject. It's a few weeks old and much of it's John squee, but a lot of interesting points are made. Especially by women who have been pregnant or know others who have been pregnant in risky job situations.

I just rewatched SoW tonight and I'm still not getting a real strong anti-feminism vibe from it. But this is what I've decided: John wasn't questioning Teyla's ability to kick ass, take care of herself, and generally be the same person she was before she got pregnant. That's what Teyla wants to believe his problem is, as the scene at the beginning of the episode with her on the stationary bike shows and the numerous times she tells him that she's more than capable to handle going on a mission.

In my perspective, John was questioning her dedication to the team and her willingness to sacrifice herself for one of them in a firefight. It's not that John knows better than her, but that he expects that her priorities are probably going to change. And they are, but Teyla doesn't quite realize how much they've changed until the life of her son is threatened. To me, BAMSR and SoW were about Teyla finally embracing her pregnancy, dealing with the fact that she's changing - physically and emotionally - and accepting that, at least for the next few months, she's not going to be the same Teyla as she has been.

Hope that makes some kind of sense. Is sleep deprived.

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

It's not that John knows better than her, but that he expects that her priorities are probably going to change. And they are, but Teyla doesn't quite realize how much they've changed until the life of her son is threatened.

But that still boils down to: John knows better than Teyla what's going to happen in her own heart. With any man and any woman, that would read sketchy--but with John and Teyla, it's sufficiently improbable to border on the offensive...unless you actually buy into the notion that of course he would know better than the woman-in-denial.

[c425cc33.livejournal.com]

I just watched this episode last night and it really bothered me on several levels. I'm sure my husband is tired of my rambling. Your meta came just in time. So, in random order:

Perhaps because I've just watched LOST S2, I am so tired of "parents sacrificing everything/everyone else because of their children" plot devices. Teyla whining about the wraith queen attacking her child and relenting at the end was so disappointing. Maybe that attitude *is* true in Real Life, but as my mother would say, "I live it, why do I have to watch it?"

Sheppard is what he is: uncomfortable with emotional situations, particularly with women. Over and over again we've seen him flinch as a woman throws her arms around him. Those S1 days -courting- ascended women are long gone. He doesn't know how to deal with Teyla's reveal and so he just lashes out with the only rhetoric he knows. I don't think his behavior was meant to be chauvinistic for its own sake and I certainly don't think Flanigan played it that way. As for an apology at the end? Well, he believes he did the right thing even though he is still grateful to Teyla for saving their butts. His slightly anxious "get her phone number" bit towards the end struck me a come-on he did because he knew he *should* and he seemed very uncomfortable about it. Maybe I just have slash goggles on that.

Hey, how come every female character in this episode was wearing spray-on low cut tops> Plenty of cleavage to go around (no pun intended). Forget Carter trying to zip up that jacket. How about that sweet little maroon lace top Teyla wore in the mess? And that bounty hunter lady (forgot her name)? She's the leader of their group and she's wearing something off-the-shoulder that looks like it might fall of altogether? The wraith queen's bodice made me really nervous whenever she would bend over Sheppard! Finally, Elizabeth in leather. Yes. So, if anything sends a chauvinist message to me, those wardrobe choices do.

Yeah, TPTB could and should do better. I want Teyla to be choice #1, but I don't want her to spend the rest of the season complaining about some threat to her baby's life.