Spoils Of War - aspects of Teyla, pregnancy, and feminism

[tielan]

It's rather interesting how polarizing this episode is for Teyla fans.

There seems to be largely two opinions held by the fandom on this episode:

1. It was an awesome episode for Teyla, where she overpowers a Wraith Queen and saves her team-mates, while still fighting and protecting her child.
2. It was a dreadful episode for Teyla, where pregnant = helpless and needing to be told what a pregnant woman can/cannot do.

I'm primarily of the 1st group, although I understand the reaction to #2 as well. That was part of my reaction - and still is.

My rundown of Spoils:

In military terms, John is quite within his rights to say that he won't have Teyla on his team. He's the commander, it's his decision. In personal terms, he was a bit of a bastard about it - which Teyla called him on in the mess hall scene. He ate his slice of humble pie, and then had to swallow when they discovered Teyla could fly the ship.

Military terms don't apply to Teyla since she's neither of the military, nor of the expedition. It may have been suggested or implied that she should inform the team of any change in her condition, but they can't force her to do so in any meaningful way without being really stupid about it. "If you don't tell us you're pregnant, we're going to sever contact with you and not help you find your people" has all the maturity of a five year-old throwing a temper tanty.

In personal terms, Teyla was well within her right and reason to keep quiet about her pregnancy. Given the status of her people and her need to find them, I think that she would balance up the need for John to know vs. her need to be out there, and make the call her way. I think Teyla was justified in wanting to keep going out on missions - in the 'jumper scene on their way to the hiveship, she more or less tells John that she can't stay cooped up or she'll go mad.

I understand that.

It did irk a little that the ending had a "John was sooooo right!" angle - one which certain portions of the fandom seemed to pick up and run with as "See? Teyla was WRONG WRONG WRONG to hide her pregnancy and want to be on the team!"

However, as a hardcore Teyla-fan where the secondary characters of interest are John and Ronon and only really if Teyla's there, too, I'm considerably more used to getting the bad as well as the good when it comes to Teyla; it's lowered my expectations of what TPTB will do with her. There is no episode in all of 80+ where Teyla's concerns are central to the plot, where her actions are central to the resolution, and her judgement is considered to be the right and correct way to go.

Considering that Spoils Of War got 2 out of 3, I'm cheering for all I'm worth.

In the end, I look at Teyla's decision to cease going out on dangerous missions like this: It was her decision.

At the point where they're on the balcony, it's Teyla who makes the choice to leave. Granted, John took her off the team at the start of the mission, but he brought her back on once it was seen she was needed. Would he have taken her off again? Maybe. Probably. But she has already decided she's not going to go back on missions for her son's sake. For her son's sake, not because John told her she couldn't. He might have made the call that ultimately prevailed, but Teyla chose it in the end.

Maybe it's sophistry; maybe I'm just not enough of a 'feminist' to be enraged about it. I understand the frustration at the implication that a pregnant woman needed to be told what she could and could not do by a man; I just think there are other angles at work here, and it's not the be-all and end-all of the way to interpret it.

Could TPTB do better? Yes. They could. But they haven't. C'est la vie.

Comments

[tielan]

It just makes me itch, you know?

Yes, I know. And I get the "biases showing" feeling from it as well - as if their sidelining/damselling of the female characters didn't already show it - but I tried to be pragmatic about it.

It would be nice to have Teyla's judgement entirely right for once - no qualifications, no "a guy knows better", just "yeah, her decision was the right one, mine was the wrong one" - just once.

But I'm not holding my breath on that front, either.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about this some more, about why I can see the male biases of the writers and, while I dislike them, I still watch and enjoy the show--and I do consider myself a feminist, no question, there--and I think it's because, when I think about what the show is and what it isn't and what I want it to be and what expectations I should reasonably have, I decide that it is not, in fact, an ensemble show. If it were, or if it were supposed to be, if they were actually intending and trying to write it that way, then I'd have more of a foundation to grouse from--not that I won't and don't grouse, anyway, because it's what I do. But that isn't what it is; it's a buddy show masquerading as an ensemble show, but not actually pretending very hard. It's the John and Rodney show, the same way SG1 was the Jack and Daniel show. It's a show written by geeky white guys about two geeky white guys saving the universe, two buddies, one a (quirky) scientist and one a (sort of odd) military man, white, middle-class (or upper-class, as we now know) white males who like each other, despite their differences (which, really? Not so vast, considering the similarities) and have a fun, funny, interesting, possibly subtextually homoerotic relationship. (That last part is debatable, I know, but, sheesh, where are they going with John and Rodney, lately, if not there?) And that's both SG1 and SGA that I'm talking about; that could describe either show, obviously. It's Jack and Daniel andSamandTeal'c, or John and Rodney andallthoseotherpeople, not an ensemble. Everyone but the two main dudes, the two buddies, are secondary. It's been that way since the Stargate movie.

So these shows aren't BtVS or AtS, they're TS or SPN or even XF. There are more secondary characters on these two shows, and they get more screen time than on the average buddy show, and the core four-person team on each show comes in at a strong second place, but, really? It's about the two white guys saving our asses with their mad white guys skillz. So, if the female characters and the characters of color get short shrift, it's not only because the writers are blinkered morons; it's because they're intended to--everyone but the two white dudes will be secondary, underused, afterthoughts, because that's how buddy shows are. (They don't have to be, but they usually are.)

Even the actors can be mistaken (or fooled) about the ensemble/buddy dynamic thing, I think--some of what Torri's said about her role struck me as her having been surprised at the limits of what she was given to do. Back on TS, the actress who played Carolyn left after the first season because she'd believed it was going to be an ensemble show and that she'd have a bigger role. The people creating these shows may actually be representing them as ensemble shows, may actually think that's what they're doing, to a point. But they're really making Starsky and Hutch with some other people thrown in, some of whom have boobs for the guys (and the guy viewers) to enjoy looking at.

I dunno, maybe that's a little harsh. That's what I think is going on, though. Doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the shows, or that I don't wish they'd make them true ensemble shows, but it is what it is, so I go with it. So maybe I'm going to be less "they're doing it wrong!" about it and more "I wish they'd do it this way, instead, but, whatever," which is probably what you're doing already. I just take longer roads to get to the same places other people do. *g*

[tielan]

I just take longer roads to get to the same places other people do. *g*

And they say it's about the journey, not the destination. :)

Seriously, though, while I might agree that SGA has turned into a dog-and-pony buddy show, I think that it started off with the intent of being an ensemble show.

And while SG1 might have been initially intended to be a buddy show, it turned into an ensemble - or, at least, a three-lead story, with Jack, Daniel, and Sam taking up major positions and Teal'c running background.

Mind you, I think they're doing it wrong as well; I'm just resigned to the fact that I am not The God Of Stargate And TPTB Must Write For Me And My Tastes.

Although that would be mighty fun. :)

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

If you ever do become The God of Stargate, prepare to be inundated with whining prayers. *g* I'm not actually that big on "they're doing it wrong" when it comes to how characters are used unless I feel the creators are doing some fairly boneheaded things with women or PoCs, being offensive as opposed to not featuring my favorite character or not taking the story in a direction I want them to. I will complain that, based on the info about a character's personality and motivations we've been given, a certain action on their part doesn't make sense to me, but people are complex, and most things can be worked with, unless one has a heavy investment in a particular character being or behaving a certain way. I'm not really about that, either; I like seeing things unfold as the writers come up with them and rolling with it. Bigoted behavior of any kind will stir me up, though, so I walk close to the "they wouldn't do that" line with women, for instance, especially since the writers are not women and I am. I can't speak for all women, of course, but they can't speak for ANY, so. *g*

Sam was a strong third on SG1, but I still think her arc was much less important to the story than either Daniel's or Jack's, especially as a lot of her stories involved her relationships, who is her (soon to be dead) paramour this week, how are things between her and her father, will she and Jack ever get together? The plots and the arcs progressed primarily through Jack and Daniel. And you may be right about their intending to create more of an ensemble dynamic built around the dashing (white guy) lead (and I think Ingram was originally intended to be black?) but, once the John and Rodney dynamic got going, everything else just fell away for them. Or maybe the focus changed as soon as they cast DH instead of creating Ingram; who knows. They went back to the buddy formula because that's what they know how to do, maybe. Keeps them from having to create realistic stories for all those pesky female characters, anyway--gosh, there are so many women in the Atlantis cast, the show would have turned into a soap opera with all those romantic arcs! Because that's what you write for women, right? Better to stick to the white guys. This is SF, after all! It's supposed to be about white guys. And large-breasted alien women in tiny costumes. *sigh*

[tielan]

Well, I disagree on the Sam front. Her links with the Tok'ra in earlier seasons and with the Replicators in later seasons was a strong propellant for the story arcs, and her technological knowledge was both useful and used.

Keeps them from having to create realistic stories for all those pesky female characters, anyway--gosh, there are so many women in the Atlantis cast, the show would have turned into a soap opera with all those romantic arcs! Because that's what you write for women, right?

Do I detect a hint of cynicism there?

Not that I don't agree somewhat. They tend to write 'female' stories for the women - no 'saving the day' without some kind of mitigation, no 'handsome males flirting with the female characters' - and the female characters tend to end up in situations where they need rescue by the male hero.

[carolyn-claire.livejournal.com]

True, but her involvement with the Tok'ra involved her little bit of thang with Martouf (and Jolinar/Lantesh) and her connection through her father. And there was The Replicator Who Loved Her and Felt Betrayed By Her So He Learned Cruelty and Came to Destroy Them All. Lots of who Sam loves and who she doesn't and who loves her, etc., running through a lot of that.

Do I detect a hint of cynicism there?

Moi? *bats eyes* Yeah, and it colors my perception of all of this, no doubt. And I know that it's not just the Stargate franchise that sees SF predominately through white guys' eyes. That's a part of why I'm cynical, I guess--I'm tired of that particular gaze in SF. (And everywhere else, of course.)