...and so I ask myself if I am the stone in your shoe.

[tielan]

"How could anyone love a stone in their shoe?"
~ The Stepmother, Ever After ~

*breathes*

It started with an author called Elizabeth Bear talking about writing the Other without being a dick. Unfortunately, someone pointed out a story of hers which features a magical negro who is 'tamed' by a white woman and stating that it was problematic.

It turned into a big argument about cultural appropriation: who has the right to write about non-whites, how our society perceives and stereotypes the Other (African, Asian, Indian, Oriental, Pacific Islander, Eskimo, Alien), how perfectly nice people can be racist without ever realising it, how it always comes back to the satisfaction and emotional catharsis of white people at the expense of the persons of colour trying to say "I am here, my pain is real, don't ignore what I have to say or dismiss it just because you don't want to hear that you put your foot wrong and might have to apologise."

I'm no good at talking about this stuff - I can't talk about a broader experience, I can only talk about my own experience.

One thing that's repeatedly come up is that white fans feel fandom is their safe space and their place to have fun. That to question the racial assumptions, cultural appropriations, and racist attitudes of fandom is to effectively deny white people their 'safe space', where they can happily squee and post fannishly and never have to question their choices or behaviours or feel guilty about the weight of history upon them regarding racist behaviours, a racist system, and how POC can't hide that they're POC.

And so I sit here and post these thoughts and try to broaden my perspectives and watch as the people who read this journal amble by without ever reading or commenting.

My f-list is primarily fannish. People who like my fic - whatever aspect that might be. People who once liked me. There are a handful of people who are both fannish and people of colour, but they're just that - a handful.

And so I watch the comments rack up on my fiction and wonder if I am the fly in the ointment of my f-list's f-lists.

Am I the crazy lady on the train?

Am I the stone in the shoe?

And if so, are the only options to wince and bear it or to throw the stone away?

Which do you choose?

Do you wince and bear these posts of mine and others like me? Or do you skip over them, safe in the knowledge that tomorrow, next week, next month, I/we/they might post something that you're actually interested in - something that's relevant to you, that doesn't challenge you and your way of looking at the world in any way?

Sometimes I wonder.

Comments

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

I came to this post through rydra_wong's links, and this is the first post of yours I've read.

It's thoughtful and worthwhile to have read, and I found myself thinking of how in this vast discussion I've met so many fellow fans of color, read so many well-laid-out descriptions of processes I've seen in my own interactions with people in fandom and not. I've found out that I haven't been alone in so many experiences I've had where at the time I did feel all alone.

So I want to encourage you to keep writing your life, including writing about race, for many reasons but not least because another one of us might read what you've written and feel that spark of recognition, know themselves not alone.

Re: The safe space metaphor

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

Actually, in most good anti-racism training, white people are in a group by themselves to start working on their stuff. People of color do the same -because god knows, we have our own issues across color lines. A third group is where people come together and try to have a discussion.

This takes time, it takes effort and it takes a whole lot of commitment.

For myself, I know I can just withdraw completely into groups where I can still have challenging discussions, including the inevitable blunders, but I can dump the rest of fandom into the ash bin. It's not something I want to do but if it's a choice about my mental health versus hearing yet another chorus of "I'm a clueless white person" and a handful of bandaids then then I choose my peace of mind.

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

I am proud of you. So tremendously, deeply proud of you.

You make me think. You remind me that I'm not alone. You challenge my assumptions. That is no small thing in this world.

We don't have to agree but I don't feel like we can't be friends when we don't. It can be struggle to understand one another and the struggle is okay. It really is.

Be brave. That's a hard thing to do when we/you/me talk about race and who we are and are not. Be brave anyway. I'll try to be brave on my end too.

[tielan]

Someone is not my friend if they only care about me when it's easy, and when it doesn't challenge them in anyway.

Intellectually, I realise this. Emotionally, though, it stings like a bitch when people tell you (or imply) that "well, this just isn't my thing, you know?"

[tielan]

Thanks for replying this time!

Mostly, I wanted to challenge people on how they address topics or conversations that make them uncomfortable. I know at least one person unfriended me because I wasn't as happy with our common TV show as she was, and her attitude was one of "well, this is my happy place, I don't want to listen or admit there are negatives - it spoils my enjoyment."

The response of most people to something that challenges them is to ignore it. And those that need the most challenging are most often the ones to ignore the signs, simply because they can.

I was hoping to jerk a few people out of the 'let's ignore this because it makes me uncomfortable' mentality. I think I reached a few people this time; if there's a next time, maybe there'll be a few more?

[tielan]

I've found out that I haven't been alone in so many experiences I've had where at the time I did feel all alone.

My FOC experience is slightly different from others' - to a large degree, I didn't know that I was looking for other fans of colour until I found them. Mostly, I wanted to find people who appreciated characters of colour and wanted to seee and write more of them instead of the 'pretty white people' all the time.

I knew I was different, that my perspective was different, but I couldn't put a name on the things that bothered me until I started encountering other fans of colour, who expressed the same sensations.

And yeah, I've felt the spark of recognition, and it's a relief to have someone else 'get it'.

[tielan]

I really appreciate our discussions and interactions - on race and other topics. Thanks so much. *hugs*

[sparkymonster.livejournal.com]

Emotionally it is really really awful. REALLY awful. Like. Holy shit what the fuck awful.

And I think one of the ways in which racism hurts PoC, is that in our personal relationships with white people (professional, platonic, romantic, etc.) there is this quiet little niggling worry of "please don't reveal yourself to be someone who is OK saying/doing racist things." I always feel bad for having that worry, but honestly that worry isn't irrational. I've had far too many [former] friends reveal themselves to hold racist beliefs.

[tielan]

I've had far too many [former] friends reveal themselves to hold racist beliefs.

To some degree, I can deal with this. To some degree.

I've discovered ingrained racist beliefs in myself before, and I'm dealing with them (after being slapped upside by people who I'm extremely grateful are still talking to me).

But it does hurt when people won't dialogue because "it's not my problem, I'm colourblind" without realising that being "blind to colour" is one way of ignoring that POC struggle - that at one level, it's pretending that the playing field is level, instead of the POC side being sown with stones.

[sparkymonster.livejournal.com]

I've discovered ingrained racist beliefs in myself before, and I'm dealing with them (after being slapped upside by people who I'm extremely grateful are still talking to me).

This is a really good point (although I use the language "prejudice" to refer to that kind of language between people of color). I wasn't thinking about ways in which I've held prejudiced and bigoted beliefs about my friends, but oh god yes. As I've become more aware of racism, prejudice and bigotry, I've become more aware of the ugliness that lies inside me. It's difficult to deal with. And I really do thank god I have friends who go "Sparky. Seriously. That was not OK." AND that I make myself listen to them.

But it does hurt when people won't dialogue because "it's not my problem, I'm colourblind" without realising that being "blind to colour" is one way of ignoring that POC struggle - that at one level, it's pretending that the playing field is level, instead of the POC side being sown with stones.

Yes. And it also ignores an important aspect of my self, my family, my life, my experiences, etc. Have you read this essay on color blind racism (http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=395)? It's AMAZING.

[violent-rabbit.livejournal.com]

Personally I regard these posts as a great way to educate myself without putting my foot in it.

Its been a very very long time since I created something fannish, and I suppose it helps/hinders that most of my fandoms are very very white and so I can dip my toes in this without the fear of mireing myself in my own privledge (wich I understand is a priviledge in itself- Im still working through this)

IN CONCULSION: I find these posts thoughtful and helpful.

[tielan]

Good essay for outlining the essentials of 'colourblind racism' vs. 'traditional racism'.

Several of the early commenterss seemed slightly Clueless, though. The admin (Rachel?) was good at answering them, though, so props to her!

[beanie-j.livejournal.com]

I read most of your posts on race - I find them interesting and informative. I don't always reply and I will admit to passing over such posts occasionally - usually when I've experienced being othered by some moron who doesn't have the first idea of how to deal with me as a person.

I also think that a lot of people don't really know how to respond to such posts. I made one the other day about the ignorant behaviour of non-disabled people towards walking-aid/wheelchair users - I really hope that more people read that than the three who actually responded, one of whom is actually disabled and wasn't the intended target of the post. But I am extremely aware of the fact that a lot of people do not know how to deal with me as a person and that they really don't wish to be challenged on their prejudice, which they validate by such comments as - "I have disabled friends - how can I be ableist?" "I'm talking to you aren't I?" and "I'm a PoC and I experience prejudice - why would I other you?"

I think sometimes the only way to go is to keep at the posting in the hope that it sinks in with some people that these sort of posts aren't going away, exactly like prejudice isn't.

[lilyayl.livejournal.com]

Fandom for me is not a 'safe place.' My safe places are my own head, my books, and my notebooks. The only safe places for me are ones that concern only me. Anytime a place is opened up to other people, their needs, ideas, passions, and problems also become an issue.

I believe people can create havens together, but those places only remain a haven for all so long as they deal with the concerns of all. Anytime one person is passed over or shoved down, the haven ceases to be and a clique is formed. If one person is tossed aside, what is keeping me from being the next to go? When the majority becomes the rule, no one is safe is anymore.

You are no stone to me. I need and want other viewpoints. Yeah, I do worry about how to write POCs and other perspectives not my own. I'm not asking to be taught, though. Just keep the meta coming. Give me more ways to see. And, when I screw up, tell me. *shrugs* Then again, I enjoy the whole 'thinking' thing. A place without thought, without questions isn't a safe place, imo, it's more a bit of hell.

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm in that handful, hunh. :p

Personally, I try to disregard colour/race/etc, when dealing with people. I think that to a point, discrimination is, unfortunately, a part of life. Some white people might look down their nose at people of colour, but some people of colour look also down their nose at white people. And some people, they look down their nose at their own kind.

As such, I tend not get worked up by issues regarding race/colour/etc in fandom, so long as it's nothing particularly offensive. Also, I think political incorrectness can be found in almost anything if you're looking for it. I do like reading your posts though, they're a different persepective, which is always good to have. :)

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Personally, I love your posts. But I can't rule out that I'm lady on the train too, so I'm not sure helpful this reply here is.

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

And in my ramble, I forgot to answer the question - you're no stone in my shoe.

Although considering you're one of the few, if not the only, sources of meta on my flist, you can be the crazy lady on the train if you want to be. :p

[dzurlady.livejournal.com]

I actually really value these race related discussions within fandom because they have been very enlightening for me. Of course, I don't want to say that the only reason that they have value is to Educate White People, because that's not what all discussions of race are for.

I am sad to see these posts, but only because you seem so sad and frustrated about it. I wish you didn't have to make them. I am glad you're writing about it.

[marag.livejournal.com]

I read 'em all. I don't generally comment, but I do read. I find it helpful to get perspectives on this issue from people on my flist, people I know. Much more useful than reading random links off metaquotes, where I don't know anything about the writer.

I wish I had profound and useful things to say on this issue, but I really don't. I kind of want to holler "But can't we all just get along?" which isn't really very helpful.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I read your posts, even if I don't always comment. We have very different ideas about race and race in fandom, but I like to hear your viewpoints because they remind me to think.

[missyvortexdv.livejournal.com]

I read all your posts about race and they are interesting to read - me being white and with few friends who aren't white it is educational, a perspective I'd otherwise miss out on - but I often don't have anything to say/add so I don't really tend to comment so much.

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

I read posts like these but don't comment on them unless I have something useful to say. I mean. It just seems like there's only so much "you're right" or "good point" or "thank you for explaining this" that a person can say before it begins to sound like (or be) lip service; but on the other hand, I don't necessarily know what else I could be saying. Mainly because I don't feel like it's appropriate for me to be saying anything else. Sort of.

Someone on my flist has repeatedly stated that it's not her place to educate white people, and she's right. On the other hand, if I'm doing something wrong, it's hard to not try to learn from people who are pointing it out.

But when it comes to things like race and sexuality and class, the only thing I'm really sure of is that I can't trust my own opinion of myself. How much of my sense of what is appropriate or inappropriate is shaped by middle class straight white privilege? But I also think that when it comes to people making themselves heard on subjects like these my own relevance and understanding is pretty far down on the scale of importance. So. I don't know.

I do read, though.

[autumn-whispers.livejournal.com]

In general, I am not bothered by these posts and usually find them informative and interesting. I rarely, if ever, comment on them though.

This is because it has been my experience from reading the comments in other posts (not really yours though), that my opinions or rather any opinion that is not in agreement with what the author is saying or is not praising the author is not generally dealt with well. This is not obviously the case all the time and for the most part I cant ever recall you or someone else on your flist being rude to a commenter.

And what I have come to realize is that because, in general I am identified as white, regardless of my history or how I was raised, in what environment or who i grew up with, I am not entitled to share my opinions because at the end of the day I am still white and my plight or suffering or what have you is somehow...not as bad.

I dont know if this is coming out right or if I am going to find my inbox full of angry comments but it seems to me that they are saying my hardships, alienation and other experience is not as bad as someone of color, which I find deeply offensive and very narrow minded.

Now this obviously is a sensitive subject, something very personable and real and private and so I hope I have not offended you.

There is something though, that I have always wanted to bring to peoples attention and that is the story of my grandparents.

They grew up in a county ruled by the British. They were denied the ability to speak in their native tongue and there were rarely, if ever, books available to them in something other than English. They were often beat or killed if they tried to speak their language. My grandmother was forced to learn English and in general my grandparents were treated as second class citizens.

My grandparents are also white. They're Irish.

Not it could be argued that their culture and the British culture is very similar, which it is in many ways but it is also different too. I would like someone like deepad to tell my grandparents that their suffering or their hardship is any less than hers or other people.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't consider you the stone in my shoe but there are others out there who are not as nice as you nor as reasonable.

[sugargroupie.livejournal.com]

it seems to me that they are saying my hardships, alienation and other experience is not as bad as someone of color, which I find deeply offensive and very narrow minded.

I don't see anywhere in this post where tielan is invalidating your experiences or those of your grandparents. But it seems to me that you've gone out of your way to invalidate hers by making this post all about you when it's really not.

I can't speak for tielan, but it's been my experience that your reaction here is a predictable response from white people who, rather than actually listen to what POC have to say and acknowledge that their experiences with racism is different than the discrimination you've experienced, make it all about their feelings.

This is not about you.

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

I read you off the deadbrowalking or Mordor friendslist. I think you're a strong dynamic writer. When you write about race or ethnicity sometimes I nod along, sometimes I wince, sometimes I smile. I don't always comment because, well, I just don't.

But I think you're bravely being you, and working through your own experience, and tying it into you experiences as a fan and I reading your posts on fandom and race make me think. They add to my experience as a fan.

You're open, and careful, and raw. That's...I don't really have a handy descriptor for that.
You're doing it for you, and you're out about it, and I think that's admirable and loving. And stubborn. You're determined to just work through all of this in the context of what's happening. And when I read posts like the one you just put up, I'm holding my breath but my eyes are smiling.