...and so I ask myself if I am the stone in your shoe.

[tielan]

"How could anyone love a stone in their shoe?"
~ The Stepmother, Ever After ~

*breathes*

It started with an author called Elizabeth Bear talking about writing the Other without being a dick. Unfortunately, someone pointed out a story of hers which features a magical negro who is 'tamed' by a white woman and stating that it was problematic.

It turned into a big argument about cultural appropriation: who has the right to write about non-whites, how our society perceives and stereotypes the Other (African, Asian, Indian, Oriental, Pacific Islander, Eskimo, Alien), how perfectly nice people can be racist without ever realising it, how it always comes back to the satisfaction and emotional catharsis of white people at the expense of the persons of colour trying to say "I am here, my pain is real, don't ignore what I have to say or dismiss it just because you don't want to hear that you put your foot wrong and might have to apologise."

I'm no good at talking about this stuff - I can't talk about a broader experience, I can only talk about my own experience.

One thing that's repeatedly come up is that white fans feel fandom is their safe space and their place to have fun. That to question the racial assumptions, cultural appropriations, and racist attitudes of fandom is to effectively deny white people their 'safe space', where they can happily squee and post fannishly and never have to question their choices or behaviours or feel guilty about the weight of history upon them regarding racist behaviours, a racist system, and how POC can't hide that they're POC.

And so I sit here and post these thoughts and try to broaden my perspectives and watch as the people who read this journal amble by without ever reading or commenting.

My f-list is primarily fannish. People who like my fic - whatever aspect that might be. People who once liked me. There are a handful of people who are both fannish and people of colour, but they're just that - a handful.

And so I watch the comments rack up on my fiction and wonder if I am the fly in the ointment of my f-list's f-lists.

Am I the crazy lady on the train?

Am I the stone in the shoe?

And if so, are the only options to wince and bear it or to throw the stone away?

Which do you choose?

Do you wince and bear these posts of mine and others like me? Or do you skip over them, safe in the knowledge that tomorrow, next week, next month, I/we/they might post something that you're actually interested in - something that's relevant to you, that doesn't challenge you and your way of looking at the world in any way?

Sometimes I wonder.

Comments

[violent-rabbit.livejournal.com]

Personally I regard these posts as a great way to educate myself without putting my foot in it.

Its been a very very long time since I created something fannish, and I suppose it helps/hinders that most of my fandoms are very very white and so I can dip my toes in this without the fear of mireing myself in my own privledge (wich I understand is a priviledge in itself- Im still working through this)

IN CONCULSION: I find these posts thoughtful and helpful.

[tielan]

I find that the learning process always involves tripping oneself up in one's own privilege. I've done it a few times myself, when talking about people who experience racism to a far more insidious and vicious degree than I do.

[beanie-j.livejournal.com]

I read most of your posts on race - I find them interesting and informative. I don't always reply and I will admit to passing over such posts occasionally - usually when I've experienced being othered by some moron who doesn't have the first idea of how to deal with me as a person.

I also think that a lot of people don't really know how to respond to such posts. I made one the other day about the ignorant behaviour of non-disabled people towards walking-aid/wheelchair users - I really hope that more people read that than the three who actually responded, one of whom is actually disabled and wasn't the intended target of the post. But I am extremely aware of the fact that a lot of people do not know how to deal with me as a person and that they really don't wish to be challenged on their prejudice, which they validate by such comments as - "I have disabled friends - how can I be ableist?" "I'm talking to you aren't I?" and "I'm a PoC and I experience prejudice - why would I other you?"

I think sometimes the only way to go is to keep at the posting in the hope that it sinks in with some people that these sort of posts aren't going away, exactly like prejudice isn't.

[tielan]

It's painful and frustrating to be Othered, no matter the cause.

In this discussion, however, it's especially frustrating because this isn't knowledge that's never been imparted before - this is old news, rehashed, and very few people seem to be learning, let alone growing.

[lilyayl.livejournal.com]

Fandom for me is not a 'safe place.' My safe places are my own head, my books, and my notebooks. The only safe places for me are ones that concern only me. Anytime a place is opened up to other people, their needs, ideas, passions, and problems also become an issue.

I believe people can create havens together, but those places only remain a haven for all so long as they deal with the concerns of all. Anytime one person is passed over or shoved down, the haven ceases to be and a clique is formed. If one person is tossed aside, what is keeping me from being the next to go? When the majority becomes the rule, no one is safe is anymore.

You are no stone to me. I need and want other viewpoints. Yeah, I do worry about how to write POCs and other perspectives not my own. I'm not asking to be taught, though. Just keep the meta coming. Give me more ways to see. And, when I screw up, tell me. *shrugs* Then again, I enjoy the whole 'thinking' thing. A place without thought, without questions isn't a safe place, imo, it's more a bit of hell.

[tielan]

A place without thought, without questions isn't a safe place, imo, it's more a bit of hell.

But, as George W Bush and the USA proved for the last 8 years, blind faith and unquestioning certainty is something that many people yearn for.

Perhaps the people questioning the validity of POC experience wouldn't subscribe to Dubya's specific brand of blind faith and unquestioning certainty, but the unhesitating belief that 'I Cannot Be Wrong. To question if I am right suggests I might be wrong. And I cannot be wrong. Therefore, I am Right and any issue between us is Your Problem and nothing to do with me.' is a part of human nature.

It's not right, perhaps, but it's very real.

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm in that handful, hunh. :p

Personally, I try to disregard colour/race/etc, when dealing with people. I think that to a point, discrimination is, unfortunately, a part of life. Some white people might look down their nose at people of colour, but some people of colour look also down their nose at white people. And some people, they look down their nose at their own kind.

As such, I tend not get worked up by issues regarding race/colour/etc in fandom, so long as it's nothing particularly offensive. Also, I think political incorrectness can be found in almost anything if you're looking for it. I do like reading your posts though, they're a different persepective, which is always good to have. :)

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

And in my ramble, I forgot to answer the question - you're no stone in my shoe.

Although considering you're one of the few, if not the only, sources of meta on my flist, you can be the crazy lady on the train if you want to be. :p

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Personally, I love your posts. But I can't rule out that I'm lady on the train too, so I'm not sure helpful this reply here is.

[dzurlady.livejournal.com]

I actually really value these race related discussions within fandom because they have been very enlightening for me. Of course, I don't want to say that the only reason that they have value is to Educate White People, because that's not what all discussions of race are for.

I am sad to see these posts, but only because you seem so sad and frustrated about it. I wish you didn't have to make them. I am glad you're writing about it.

[marag.livejournal.com]

I read 'em all. I don't generally comment, but I do read. I find it helpful to get perspectives on this issue from people on my flist, people I know. Much more useful than reading random links off metaquotes, where I don't know anything about the writer.

I wish I had profound and useful things to say on this issue, but I really don't. I kind of want to holler "But can't we all just get along?" which isn't really very helpful.

[tielan]

which isn't really very helpful.

Heh. No, it isn't, I'm afraid.

My problem with 'can't we all just get along' is that I feel it implies that the status quo was perfectly okay until someone started upsetting the balance.

And the person upsetting the balance is always the disadvantaged person. So for things to be 'okay' again, all the disadvantaged person has to do is sit down, shut up, and let the dominant group go back to doing what they were doing before the balance was thrown off.

I know that's not how you meant it, but I suspect that I'm not unique among POC in this feeling: that the dominant group are often pressuring the disadvantaged group to shut up, sit down, keep their discontent to themselves, and not spoil everyone else's fun.

Certainly it's an attitude that some of the more offensive white fans seem to take towards POC complaints of unfairness, exclusion, or the ball-blocking of characters of colour. "Well, that's your problem, I'm having fun over here!"

Again, I know you didn't mean it that way, and you've acknowledged that it's not helpful; but this goes some way towards explaning the itchy feeling I get when someone uses this phrase - in any discussion, not just fannish or racism metas.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I read your posts, even if I don't always comment. We have very different ideas about race and race in fandom, but I like to hear your viewpoints because they remind me to think.

[missyvortexdv.livejournal.com]

I read all your posts about race and they are interesting to read - me being white and with few friends who aren't white it is educational, a perspective I'd otherwise miss out on - but I often don't have anything to say/add so I don't really tend to comment so much.

[mahoni.livejournal.com]

I read posts like these but don't comment on them unless I have something useful to say. I mean. It just seems like there's only so much "you're right" or "good point" or "thank you for explaining this" that a person can say before it begins to sound like (or be) lip service; but on the other hand, I don't necessarily know what else I could be saying. Mainly because I don't feel like it's appropriate for me to be saying anything else. Sort of.

Someone on my flist has repeatedly stated that it's not her place to educate white people, and she's right. On the other hand, if I'm doing something wrong, it's hard to not try to learn from people who are pointing it out.

But when it comes to things like race and sexuality and class, the only thing I'm really sure of is that I can't trust my own opinion of myself. How much of my sense of what is appropriate or inappropriate is shaped by middle class straight white privilege? But I also think that when it comes to people making themselves heard on subjects like these my own relevance and understanding is pretty far down on the scale of importance. So. I don't know.

I do read, though.

[tielan]

I guess I put a bit too much emphasis on the specific 'me' and not enough on the generality of my thoughts. My bad.

Primarily, I wanted to challenge people to think about how they perceive the race discussions: as something to *sigh* and *rolleyes* about, to skip over, to ignore, to dismiss or deride or complain that it harshes their squee.

We're all shaped and formed by our history: my own is middle class, straight, and 'banana' - yellow skin, white inside. I can get past the inherently racist assumptions of others as, say, some African-Americans can't, because my upbringing was, essentially 'white'. On the other hand, there are some assumptions that I will never escape because I am not white/caucasian in appearance.

There are some assumptions I will make, am making, have made that come from a white dominant perspective: I am at once the oppressor and the oppressed. Which, in some ways, is helpful in this discussion - I've said and done stupid, racist things, and I've had them said and done to me, too. I can see both ways down the street.

[autumn-whispers.livejournal.com]

In general, I am not bothered by these posts and usually find them informative and interesting. I rarely, if ever, comment on them though.

This is because it has been my experience from reading the comments in other posts (not really yours though), that my opinions or rather any opinion that is not in agreement with what the author is saying or is not praising the author is not generally dealt with well. This is not obviously the case all the time and for the most part I cant ever recall you or someone else on your flist being rude to a commenter.

And what I have come to realize is that because, in general I am identified as white, regardless of my history or how I was raised, in what environment or who i grew up with, I am not entitled to share my opinions because at the end of the day I am still white and my plight or suffering or what have you is somehow...not as bad.

I dont know if this is coming out right or if I am going to find my inbox full of angry comments but it seems to me that they are saying my hardships, alienation and other experience is not as bad as someone of color, which I find deeply offensive and very narrow minded.

Now this obviously is a sensitive subject, something very personable and real and private and so I hope I have not offended you.

There is something though, that I have always wanted to bring to peoples attention and that is the story of my grandparents.

They grew up in a county ruled by the British. They were denied the ability to speak in their native tongue and there were rarely, if ever, books available to them in something other than English. They were often beat or killed if they tried to speak their language. My grandmother was forced to learn English and in general my grandparents were treated as second class citizens.

My grandparents are also white. They're Irish.

Not it could be argued that their culture and the British culture is very similar, which it is in many ways but it is also different too. I would like someone like deepad to tell my grandparents that their suffering or their hardship is any less than hers or other people.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't consider you the stone in my shoe but there are others out there who are not as nice as you nor as reasonable.

[sugargroupie.livejournal.com]

it seems to me that they are saying my hardships, alienation and other experience is not as bad as someone of color, which I find deeply offensive and very narrow minded.

I don't see anywhere in this post where tielan is invalidating your experiences or those of your grandparents. But it seems to me that you've gone out of your way to invalidate hers by making this post all about you when it's really not.

I can't speak for tielan, but it's been my experience that your reaction here is a predictable response from white people who, rather than actually listen to what POC have to say and acknowledge that their experiences with racism is different than the discrimination you've experienced, make it all about their feelings.

This is not about you.

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

I read you off the deadbrowalking or Mordor friendslist. I think you're a strong dynamic writer. When you write about race or ethnicity sometimes I nod along, sometimes I wince, sometimes I smile. I don't always comment because, well, I just don't.

But I think you're bravely being you, and working through your own experience, and tying it into you experiences as a fan and I reading your posts on fandom and race make me think. They add to my experience as a fan.

You're open, and careful, and raw. That's...I don't really have a handy descriptor for that.
You're doing it for you, and you're out about it, and I think that's admirable and loving. And stubborn. You're determined to just work through all of this in the context of what's happening. And when I read posts like the one you just put up, I'm holding my breath but my eyes are smiling.

[tielan]

Well, I wince at myself sometimes. Actually, most of the time. :)

I think I often feel I don't have a 'right' to talk about my experience because it's not the kind of experience that many of the deadbrowalking LJers have. There's racism, certainly, and it's humiliating and frustrating and depressing, but it's not as pervasive or as horrible as what many others with darker skin and less 'mainstream middleclass' upbringings suffer.

I know that's bullshit. But I mentioned in my last post about race, that sometimes I wonder if the LJ POC community sees me as something of a pretender. Most of the time, I'm pretty sure they're not. But sometimes I worry all the same.

[beatrice_otter]

I don't comment on most posts dealing with racial issues, but do comment on fanfic. It has nothing to do with how valuable I find one or the other. I comment on fanfic because that is the expected form of "payment" for a well-written story. I don't generally comment on racial issues because I'm a white middle-class American woman with very little experience dealing with people of color. There are many articulate people out there championing the white-middle-class perspective; unless someone is being exceptionally racist about it, I don't really need to speak up. And the more white people who talk about racism in a forum as white-oriented as fandom is, the less the voices of POC stand out. So I'm much more likely to post a rec to a race meta post by a POC than to comment on it.

[tielan]

So I'm much more likely to post a rec to a race meta post by a POC than to comment on it.

See, some of the time, I just point to others, but sometimes I feel like adding my $0.02 to the business. And I hope that it might help people who know me to think about why people they only know as 'bloggers about race' say something that they don't get.

But linking/reccing is always good for raising awareness and promoting less-noticed topics and themes.

Read this one instead. My and my typos. :D

[jadestrick.livejournal.com]

Ho boy.

Okay, I usually don't try to bring up racism, but sometimes it's hard to ignore. And alas (and I'm not trying to make a special case), where I live has a HUGE impact on it. My home is backwards. And of course, that's affected me. I rant occasionally, but I also think I'm a pessimist on it all. My parents feel differently, of course, and I feel differently from them, but I've often found I'd rather sit there with my fingers in my ears. To be blunt, I'm just tired.

That being said, two things:
1. Safe? Um no. I read your posts and think seriously about them. They can't be ignored and neither can the subject of them. I guess when it comes to Teyla & Ronon, I've given up on yelling at Darth Mallozzi, because it never does any good. So no, in no way are your posts inert.

2. I don't watch the shows for debatable matter. I watch it for entertainment. That whole rant I had last night about BSG was a severe overreaction, I now realize. Russ was sitting there going "WHY are you taking this so seriously?!?!?" I think the fact is that my fandoms are my escape, and bringing politics and racism and Lord knows what else into it taints it for me. Not to say that people shouldn't! Absolutely. Whatever floats boats.

If you'll allow me to keep going...

It's like when people I read a story (specifically, written by a white author) and the characters are talking...what race do I imagine? White. Because I am white and was raised by white people. Notice how when they introduce an African-American, they SAY "African-American." It's the saddest way of thinking, but unfortunately, we're hardwired by what color of skin raised us.

HOWEVER (and this has to do with point 2), with the shows? I really could care less. I don't even NOTICE (which I'm realizing at this moment and am kinda amazed :D). So, when issues of race get brought up in BSG or Stargate or Heroes (especially Heroes), all I'm thinking is, "I didn't even notice that." Obviously, the common response is "Well, you're white and you're happy with the white cast." That's possible. Like I said, hardwired. But if it is, it's subconsciously. I, personally, could've just found everyone neutral the more I grew up and had friends of all ethnicities.

So, for me, fandom is not safe. In fact, my World of Escape is nothing more than that: escape. It's the world working out, when the real world doesn't.

...I may be babbling.

Re: Read this one instead. My and my typos. :D

[tielan]

To some degree, yes, shows like BSG mix up the racial cast. On the other hand, people have pointed out that the Capricans were all white, while one of the other 'tribes' who tended to get the bad rap (I think it might have been Sagitrons?) were POCs; the black Dee is considered 'sloppy seconds' to the white Kara in the romance stakes for Lee Adama - both in fandom and to Lee; and other than Sharon Valerii, there is no COC in the main cast. Helo passes as white in spite of the actor's First Nation heritage, as does Bill Adama in spite of EJO being Hispanic.

And all this compounds and adds to the already-pervasive view that coloured people have no stories to tell, nothing important to say, nothing to teach white people about life and living that isn't inferior to what the whites already know.

I'd say you're less 'hardwired' and more 'socialised', which puts a responsibility on you (and me and everyone else on God's green Earth) to keep an eye on that subconscious bias that creeps in.

But if it is, it's subconsciously.

And this is the heart of the problem: a lot of the people currently out there, bitching commenting about the mean and nasty POC who are calling them on their privilege have simply absorbed the racism that pervades our society.

Some people don't want to change or reframe their perspectives: that's their choice. I want to not only learn, but grow and change and become a better, fairer person through that self-examination and the painful process of being thwapped upside the head when I've tripped over my own privilege.

Does that make sense?

[rachelsoma.livejournal.com]

I don't think you should ever feel like you have to censor yourself and your feelings as a POC or about racist issues.

You're certainly not a fly in the ointment of my flist!

[ryf.livejournal.com]

I read and try to internalize most posts on the subject, but I am seriously way too nervous to every comment because I don't want to be flamed. My experiences as a European from a country where I see a black person maybe three times a day and the main racism is against a completely different group (Turkish and Eastern European people) with a completely different history behind it than in the US sometimes seems too different to comment in a meaningful way on POC in a pre-dominantly US/UK/Australian-centric fandom. I am afraid of saying something that might come across as offensive, even after years of reading those kind of posts. Not being a native speaker does not help with terminology, for example. Yes, I was still taught 'coloured' was an appropriate, not offensive term (it still is in the UK, I think?). Imagine just what the reaction to that would have been had I used it in a fandom debate...

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I wonder if there is a particular racism trigger for Germans/former Nazi states. Because it at least feels to me like we are disproportionately represented in the current race discussion (usually with versions of "racism is important, but the way we relate to it and what it means to us is very different").

Or maybe I just see us/hints of us more.

[blacksquirrel.livejournal.com]

Teyla was my joy in SGA, but now that I'm not in SGA as actively anymore I tend to skim your SGA-related posts. And, depending on what else is going on in my life, I often do little more than skim my entire f-list. But in general, I think you do a nice job of talking about your experience and asking good questions about whatever discussions there are on LJ. And I'm always really glad to read about how much you love Teyla, because even though I'm not as active in SGA anymore, I will always love Teyla too.

But what really caught my eye was your opening quote, because I love that movie and cringe every time that line comes up - it's so horribly visceral. But it also reminds me of another "stone in shoe" quote - from the song "By My Side" in Godspell. The musical is Christian, but the song speaks to me about friendship and love and death and losing people. I think it talks poignantly about meeting the people you need to meet, learning from each other, and then continuing on through life:

"Where are you going?/Where are you going?/Can you take me with you?/For my hand is cold/And needs warmth/Where are you going?/Far beyond where the horizon lies/Where the horizon lies/And the land sinks into mellow blueness/Oh please, take me with you/Let me skip the road with you/I can dare myself/I can dare myself/I'll put a pebble in my shoe/And watch me walk (watch me walk)/I can walk I can walk!/I shall call the pebble Dare/I shall call the pebble Dare/We will walk, we will talk together/About walking Dare shall be carried/And when we both have had enough/I will take him from my shoe, singing/'Meet your new road!' "

Anyway, taking your stone metaphor, I think it can be expanded to consider the way we need to love and appreciate the people who challenge us.

Although, I've never considered you a stone - rather, a writer I enjoy reading.

ETA: I wanted add, regarding "safe space," that for many fandom acts as safe because it doesn't have a bodily presence, and because there are a preponderance of people who are othered in a variety of ways, especially sexual, philosophical, and religious. However, the challenge is to make sure that it's safe for *everyone* - and I think this is a debate we'll always have : about bi-curious and lesbian presence in fandom, about religious diversity, and about race - and there's an effort to be certain that by making the space "safe" for one particular group it doesn't become unsafe for another, which often happens. Thinking of/accepting fandom as a "safe space" for white privilege would be the worst possible betrayal of that ideal, of a place for complexly othered people to all hang out together in harmony.

The safe space metaphor

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I like to mindplay what would happen if we took the safe space metaphor to the hilt. What would it be like?

Everybody can relate to the idea of fandom as a safe space. The issue is that white fen claim fandom as their safe space, but what makes it safe for them might be precisely what makes it unsafe for POC fen.

So, how do we deal with unsafe space? In warning discussions we regularly have the discussions about how people really want rape warnings, because they have so called "triggers" that they want to avoid because they have experiences with rape in real life. This explanation is generally respected.

So, if we framed the safe space problem as being like this, would it make sense? People who endure a lot of race related crap in real life, who are triggered by offesive representation and want to avoid it in fandom, who want fandom to be their safe space?

If we used this logic, wouldn't the logical result be if people started warning for it? No, obviously not along the lines of "this is racist crap", but more like "cpwotc" (clueless person outside their culture) or "wpwotc" (white person writing outside their culture) or even just wpw (white person writer).

Or maybe disclaimers along the lines of "Disclaimer: This might be annoying and offensive to you. Please consider not reading it.".

In the case of rape, warnings and disclaimers protect twofold. The easily triggered person gets to decide whether they really want to take the risk and bother with the fic. And the author who gets called out about it gets to say "Hello, didn't you read the warning? Don't like it, don't read it. If you don't like it, why didn't you hit the back button?".

Of course this is just a half tongue in cheek mind experiment. Tough I do wonder how/whether that would affect writers. Would it make people more aware of what they are writing? Would the writing get more bad? Would there be discussion about it? Would it motivate people to try harder to overcome the wpw label?

I guess that is currently on my mind. If we are trying to discuss race on a larger scale or if the topic really is race and racism in fandom specifically.

[chyti.livejournal.com]

I feel so inadequate adding my two cents to this which is why I normally don't respond.

As a POC I have at times have found fandom to be entirely to white and therefore have only lurked in one of two areas, yours being the main one and yes I do agree to an extent that some use it as their haven where they can live in their own little world of whitness with no interruptions.

Yet there is another side that welcomes your discussions and as I enjoys them, it reminds me that I am not alone in my thinking.

I respect what you do in all aspects of your writing but mostly in the voice you give to those characters of color. Without you and others like you, a reader would be hard press to know that poc existed in certain fandoms.

I true writer can give a voice to any character regardless of color. If you respect your character and your audience you would do what you must to bring that character to life. The same way a poc can write for an white character and audience the same should be for a white writer.

[briar_pipe]

I read your posts, as well as many others. I watch a few comms. But I feel I don't know enough yet to comment, and rather than slather my ignorance all over the 'nets, I say nothing. Irl, this would possibly be the worst policy, but in an online forum, it makes more sense (at least to me).

Your posts are very informative, and I thank you for making them. If you like comments like "read it! thinking about it!", then I can give those. I just don't have anything of substance to contribute like you do.

[timespirt.livejournal.com]

I always read, but I may not always comment.

[renisanz.livejournal.com]

Well, being in that even smaller handful that you mentioned, I quite enjoy reading your posts about race. I find them enlightening, and I think it's cool how you're trying to figure things out and kind of find your place in the whole thing. You've said before that you haven't experienced much in the way of discrimination or lack of privilege, but then it comes out in little ways, like a coworker making a the horrible joke from the assumption that you and another guy must be dating/married just because you're both asian.

It's strange for me. I'm subconsciously aware of the "other" perspective I bring to my writing. I think these posts you make about race enrich your writing for me. I remember when I first started reading your fic, I liked the way you portrayed Teyla and John. You write Teyla as a person rather than just an alien.

I became more aware of the subtle differences in how writer's perceive race when I started betaing. Then suddenly, I have my potentially-offensive-use-of-terminology glasses on and I see things (and feel a certain level of obligation) to point it out to the writer where someone else might not have noticed it. Still, I feel a strong sense of naivety at time when confronted with such things, because I'm not one that's quickly offended. I just like to make someone aware of how certain things can be perceived if they're written just so.

But hey, I live in a place where many people think it's perfectly acceptable to sport Confederate flags on t-shirts (http://dixieoutfitters.com/dixie_store), cuz, ya know, it's about "heritage, not hate."

[briar_pipe]

it's about "heritage, not hate."

I feel your pain.

Though I suppose technically that should be, "I feel y'all's pain." (as y'all is now singular)

I just want to say :)

[thelana.livejournal.com]

I just want to say: thank you for having/hosting this discussion in your journal and bearing with us. Especially the sometimes dense ones like me and I do hope I have occasional redeeming value, when when I'm a horrible person who rarely ever reads fic anymore and as a result rarely comment :(

I do love your spirit and I just love the way you "talk" when you write your entries. Never stop and I hope we didn't smother you with all the replies.

[sparkymonster.livejournal.com]

And so I watch the comments rack up on my fiction and wonder if I am the fly in the ointment of my f-list's f-lists.

Am I the crazy lady on the train?

Am I the stone in the shoe?

And if so, are the only options to wince and bear it or to throw the stone away?

One thing I think about it is that if someone who is a friend (not a reader, but some kind of internet friend) finds my existence as a PoC to be a stone in their shoe, they aren't actually my friend. Not really. Someone is not my friend if they only care about me when it's easy, and when it doesn't challenge them in anyway.

I also get a lot of value/strength/support/love in participating in a fandom wide discussion which includes other PoC who are fans. I also enjoy talking with people who are allies and people who get it.

Oh and uh I wrote this (http://sparkymonster.livejournal.com/243177.html) which might be interesting.

[tielan]

Someone is not my friend if they only care about me when it's easy, and when it doesn't challenge them in anyway.

Intellectually, I realise this. Emotionally, though, it stings like a bitch when people tell you (or imply) that "well, this just isn't my thing, you know?"

[aelfgyfu_mead]

And so I sit here and post these thoughts and try to broaden my perspectives and watch as the people who read this journal amble by without ever reading or commenting.
I've read a few of your fics; I'm not on your flist and you're not on mine, but we intersect sometimes. If I had more time, I'd probably add you to my flist.

I've read a few of your recent posts. I haven't commented until now, because I don't know what to say. I can at least say this: I've been reading an awful lot of posts (mostly from rydra_wong's amazing lists) and doing an awful lot of thinking, and doing very little replying. I think that's a good thing, on the whole.

The bad thing about not commenting is that of course people don't know that I've even read, let alone that I've been learning from them. Maybe I should have commented more, but I felt like saying "great post" sounded condescending, and that was the absolute last thing I wanted to do.

Sometimes a stone in my shoe is useful, because it tells me there's a hole in my shoe, and I need to get a new pair. I'm not always grateful to the stone, but I've learned something useful. I think I've pushed this metaphor as far as I should and should quit now. I don't think you're crazy, and you're not annoying me. I'm a white fan who does like to think of fandom as a safe place, but who already had some inklings it's not always a safe place for everyone. I have a much clearer picture now.

[tielan]

Thanks for replying this time!

Mostly, I wanted to challenge people on how they address topics or conversations that make them uncomfortable. I know at least one person unfriended me because I wasn't as happy with our common TV show as she was, and her attitude was one of "well, this is my happy place, I don't want to listen or admit there are negatives - it spoils my enjoyment."

The response of most people to something that challenges them is to ignore it. And those that need the most challenging are most often the ones to ignore the signs, simply because they can.

I was hoping to jerk a few people out of the 'let's ignore this because it makes me uncomfortable' mentality. I think I reached a few people this time; if there's a next time, maybe there'll be a few more?

[minnow1212.livejournal.com]

Linked via Rydra. Thanks for posting this.