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"How could anyone love a stone in their shoe?"
~ The Stepmother, Ever After ~
~ The Stepmother, Ever After ~
*breathes*
It started with an author called Elizabeth Bear talking about writing the Other without being a dick. Unfortunately, someone pointed out a story of hers which features a magical negro who is 'tamed' by a white woman and stating that it was problematic.
It turned into a big argument about cultural appropriation: who has the right to write about non-whites, how our society perceives and stereotypes the Other (African, Asian, Indian, Oriental, Pacific Islander, Eskimo, Alien), how perfectly nice people can be racist without ever realising it, how it always comes back to the satisfaction and emotional catharsis of white people at the expense of the persons of colour trying to say "I am here, my pain is real, don't ignore what I have to say or dismiss it just because you don't want to hear that you put your foot wrong and might have to apologise."
I'm no good at talking about this stuff - I can't talk about a broader experience, I can only talk about my own experience.
One thing that's repeatedly come up is that white fans feel fandom is their safe space and their place to have fun. That to question the racial assumptions, cultural appropriations, and racist attitudes of fandom is to effectively deny white people their 'safe space', where they can happily squee and post fannishly and never have to question their choices or behaviours or feel guilty about the weight of history upon them regarding racist behaviours, a racist system, and how POC can't hide that they're POC.
And so I sit here and post these thoughts and try to broaden my perspectives and watch as the people who read this journal amble by without ever reading or commenting.
My f-list is primarily fannish. People who like my fic - whatever aspect that might be. People who once liked me. There are a handful of people who are both fannish and people of colour, but they're just that - a handful.
And so I watch the comments rack up on my fiction and wonder if I am the fly in the ointment of my f-list's f-lists.
Am I the crazy lady on the train?
Am I the stone in the shoe?
And if so, are the only options to wince and bear it or to throw the stone away?
Which do you choose?
Do you wince and bear these posts of mine and others like me? Or do you skip over them, safe in the knowledge that tomorrow, next week, next month, I/we/they might post something that you're actually interested in - something that's relevant to you, that doesn't challenge you and your way of looking at the world in any way?
Sometimes I wonder.
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Its been a very very long time since I created something fannish, and I suppose it helps/hinders that most of my fandoms are very very white and so I can dip my toes in this without the fear of mireing myself in my own privledge (wich I understand is a priviledge in itself- Im still working through this)
IN CONCULSION: I find these posts thoughtful and helpful.
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I also think that a lot of people don't really know how to respond to such posts. I made one the other day about the ignorant behaviour of non-disabled people towards walking-aid/wheelchair users - I really hope that more people read that than the three who actually responded, one of whom is actually disabled and wasn't the intended target of the post. But I am extremely aware of the fact that a lot of people do not know how to deal with me as a person and that they really don't wish to be challenged on their prejudice, which they validate by such comments as - "I have disabled friends - how can I be ableist?" "I'm talking to you aren't I?" and "I'm a PoC and I experience prejudice - why would I other you?"
I think sometimes the only way to go is to keep at the posting in the hope that it sinks in with some people that these sort of posts aren't going away, exactly like prejudice isn't.
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I believe people can create havens together, but those places only remain a haven for all so long as they deal with the concerns of all. Anytime one person is passed over or shoved down, the haven ceases to be and a clique is formed. If one person is tossed aside, what is keeping me from being the next to go? When the majority becomes the rule, no one is safe is anymore.
You are no stone to me. I need and want other viewpoints. Yeah, I do worry about how to write POCs and other perspectives not my own. I'm not asking to be taught, though. Just keep the meta coming. Give me more ways to see. And, when I screw up, tell me. *shrugs* Then again, I enjoy the whole 'thinking' thing. A place without thought, without questions isn't a safe place, imo, it's more a bit of hell.
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Personally, I try to disregard colour/race/etc, when dealing with people. I think that to a point, discrimination is, unfortunately, a part of life. Some white people might look down their nose at people of colour, but some people of colour look also down their nose at white people. And some people, they look down their nose at their own kind.
As such, I tend not get worked up by issues regarding race/colour/etc in fandom, so long as it's nothing particularly offensive. Also, I think political incorrectness can be found in almost anything if you're looking for it. I do like reading your posts though, they're a different persepective, which is always good to have. :)
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Although considering you're one of the few, if not the only, sources of meta on my flist, you can be the crazy lady on the train if you want to be. :p
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I am sad to see these posts, but only because you seem so sad and frustrated about it. I wish you didn't have to make them. I am glad you're writing about it.
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I wish I had profound and useful things to say on this issue, but I really don't. I kind of want to holler "But can't we all just get along?" which isn't really very helpful.
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Someone on my flist has repeatedly stated that it's not her place to educate white people, and she's right. On the other hand, if I'm doing something wrong, it's hard to not try to learn from people who are pointing it out.
But when it comes to things like race and sexuality and class, the only thing I'm really sure of is that I can't trust my own opinion of myself. How much of my sense of what is appropriate or inappropriate is shaped by middle class straight white privilege? But I also think that when it comes to people making themselves heard on subjects like these my own relevance and understanding is pretty far down on the scale of importance. So. I don't know.
I do read, though.
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This is because it has been my experience from reading the comments in other posts (not really yours though), that my opinions or rather any opinion that is not in agreement with what the author is saying or is not praising the author is not generally dealt with well. This is not obviously the case all the time and for the most part I cant ever recall you or someone else on your flist being rude to a commenter.
And what I have come to realize is that because, in general I am identified as white, regardless of my history or how I was raised, in what environment or who i grew up with, I am not entitled to share my opinions because at the end of the day I am still white and my plight or suffering or what have you is somehow...not as bad.
I dont know if this is coming out right or if I am going to find my inbox full of angry comments but it seems to me that they are saying my hardships, alienation and other experience is not as bad as someone of color, which I find deeply offensive and very narrow minded.
Now this obviously is a sensitive subject, something very personable and real and private and so I hope I have not offended you.
There is something though, that I have always wanted to bring to peoples attention and that is the story of my grandparents.
They grew up in a county ruled by the British. They were denied the ability to speak in their native tongue and there were rarely, if ever, books available to them in something other than English. They were often beat or killed if they tried to speak their language. My grandmother was forced to learn English and in general my grandparents were treated as second class citizens.
My grandparents are also white. They're Irish.
Not it could be argued that their culture and the British culture is very similar, which it is in many ways but it is also different too. I would like someone like
So I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't consider you the stone in my shoe but there are others out there who are not as nice as you nor as reasonable.
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I don't see anywhere in this post where
I can't speak for
This is not about you.
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But I think you're bravely being you, and working through your own experience, and tying it into you experiences as a fan and I reading your posts on fandom and race make me think. They add to my experience as a fan.
You're open, and careful, and raw. That's...I don't really have a handy descriptor for that.
You're doing it for you, and you're out about it, and I think that's admirable and loving. And stubborn. You're determined to just work through all of this in the context of what's happening. And when I read posts like the one you just put up, I'm holding my breath but my eyes are smiling.
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Also, never did I suggest that
Also, I am not talking about my experiences here, I made a point to leave them out.
Your response is also what I would consider typical. I am not trying to start an argument, I was simply wanting to share another opinion.
Now I cant really tell from your writing what your tone to me is supposed to be but it seems very hostile and a little rude. If this is not the case then I'm sorry. I would also like to note that it was not my intent to be rude in my previous post nor is it my intent to be so now.
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That should not be taken as making it about you? When people of color make posts about their experiences w/r/t race, it's often the act of dredging up old hurts and painful experiences, and it's very dismissive to come into a post and turn the focus so that it's no longer about that POC but about you. You may not have even realized that that's what you were doing, but that was my impression, and it is very typical response and reflection of your privilege.
I'm not going there with you on my tone. I have not been disrespectful to you.
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I understand where you are coming from, the 'my' wasn't meant to be me but suppose to be those who aren't considered POC in general. In retrosepct I didn't phrase it well, I wasn't trying to make this about me but I was trying to give an example that was different. I was trying to say you can't blanketly say just because someone is white they either dont understand, emphathise or have gone through something similar.
it is very typical response and reflection of your privilege
And by privilege you mean my being white?
I have not been disrespectful to you.
Thank you and I hope I have not been to you because it wasn't my intention.
I would still like to know your ideas on racism vs discrimination though.
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Read this one instead. My and my typos. :D
Okay, I usually don't try to bring up racism, but sometimes it's hard to ignore. And alas (and I'm not trying to make a special case), where I live has a HUGE impact on it. My home is backwards. And of course, that's affected me. I rant occasionally, but I also think I'm a pessimist on it all. My parents feel differently, of course, and I feel differently from them, but I've often found I'd rather sit there with my fingers in my ears. To be blunt, I'm just tired.
That being said, two things:
1. Safe? Um no. I read your posts and think seriously about them. They can't be ignored and neither can the subject of them. I guess when it comes to Teyla & Ronon, I've given up on yelling at Darth Mallozzi, because it never does any good. So no, in no way are your posts inert.
2. I don't watch the shows for debatable matter. I watch it for entertainment. That whole rant I had last night about BSG was a severe overreaction, I now realize. Russ was sitting there going "WHY are you taking this so seriously?!?!?" I think the fact is that my fandoms are my escape, and bringing politics and racism and Lord knows what else into it taints it for me. Not to say that people shouldn't! Absolutely. Whatever floats boats.
If you'll allow me to keep going...
It's like when
peopleI read a story (specifically, written by a white author) and the characters are talking...what race do I imagine? White. Because I am white and was raised by white people. Notice how when they introduce an African-American, they SAY "African-American." It's the saddest way of thinking, but unfortunately, we're hardwired by what color of skin raised us.HOWEVER (and this has to do with point 2), with the shows? I really could care less. I don't even NOTICE (which I'm realizing at this moment and am kinda amazed :D). So, when issues of race get brought up in BSG or Stargate or Heroes (especially Heroes), all I'm thinking is, "I didn't even notice that." Obviously, the common response is "Well, you're white and you're happy with the white cast." That's possible. Like I said, hardwired. But if it is, it's subconsciously. I, personally, could've just found everyone neutral the more I grew up and had friends of all ethnicities.
So, for me, fandom is not safe. In fact, my World of Escape is nothing more than that: escape. It's the world working out, when the real world doesn't.
...I may be babbling.
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I understand. We have completely didn't readings of this post, because, that wasn't the message I took away at all.
And by privilege you mean my being white?
Yes, your white privilege (http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-03-08_146). I highly recommend reading this guide.
I would still like to know your ideas on racism vs discrimination though.
Sorry, I meant to answer your question in my previous reply. I'll just c&p what's found in the link above about the key differences in discriminating against POC vs. whites:
"The same power dynamics that create privilege have created a hierarchy of prejudice so that discrimination against a privileged group is not the same as discrimination against a non-privileged group. This is because discrimination against a non-privileged group is backed up with institutionalized power, whereas discrimination against a privileged group is often a singular act and therefore easier to avoid."
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Oppressed groups (and yes, they are or have been oppressed) Irish and homsosexuals may have been beaten down and discriminated against, but they can pass. Maybe they don't want to. But they can. They can keep their mouth shut or not talk about their sexuality and they won't draw fire for it.
A black person or an Asian person or someone who isn't 'white' doesn't even get the choice to keep their mouth shut. Their very person is a walking, visual, ever-present, inescapable truth: that they are not white.
So, yes, other groups of people, many of them white, experience discrimination; but this discussion is not about them. To make it about them as many people do, some intentionally and some unintentionally(like you), derails the topic to All About Whites again.
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You're certainly not a fly in the ointment of my flist!
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What is important in history is how the people were treated then, not now, which is why using history to prop up an -ism argument is flawed - on either side. When PoC talk about discrimination, I'm more concerned with the here and now, since I cannot change what happened in the past, only how things are now.
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I do think that not all "this is how I see it" is necessarily malicious and an exercise in trying to make it all about yourself.
I do get that there are times when it feels along the lines of:
Person A: (stunned) My mother just died
Person B: I know what pain feels like. Did I tell you yet about how when my dog died? Let me tell you all about it!
But other times, I guess to me its just human nature to seek things you have in common. Even if they are indefinitely smaller versions of the real thing. But to me that's just how the mind works. You seek something you can understand and you try to extrapolate it. But you still need that first stone to step on.
Just like, if person A is telling you about how their mother just died, of course you listen and you hold their hand. But you can't really do that forever. At one point you are going to talk to them (though the point might not have been reached yet). And at least for me, when I'm talking to somebody in that situation, I do usually insert things like "This is how I dealt with it" or "This is how somebody I know experienced it". To me, that's how building bridges works. That's how communication eventually works.
I guess I'm trying to say not all of it is ill-natured even in those cases when our tendency to want to be wise-ass comes through (which indeed does deserve to be slapped down. A lot. Hard.).
And there is the other side to it, namely that white people talking to white people might on occasion be good for them. Even if it is boring to POC and therefore maybe should be done in seclusion where POC don't have to read through it while we still try to sort our thoughts.
(visual:
POC (roughly 500 steps ahead): Are you coming now or not?
WP: Be right up, I'm still tying my shoelaces.
(5 hours later)
POC: You know, I'm beginning to suspect that you are just stalling.
WP: *gets huffy and gives a lecture on the importance and history of tying shoelaces while POC bangs head against the wall?
)
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