racial/american bias in Stargate Atlantis?

[tielan]

It's recently come to my notice that the manner in which 'native races' are portrayed on Stargate is, if not racist, then certainly strongly jingoistic.

This is going to focus on the broader perception of races and how they get portrayed in the show - mostly Atlantis, although SG-1 will be in there, too.

Basically, it seems that the native races of Pegasus are either technologically inept (primitive) or 'the bad guys'.

We have societies like the Athosians, who are still in the 'hunter-gatherer' stage of civilisation, who are on the side of the Atlantis expedition but primitive; and at the other end of the scale, we have societies like the Gennii, who are close to the 'information revolution' stage of civilisation, but are at best wary allies, and at worst, frank enemies.

Then there are the Satedans, who must have had a pretty technologically advanced civilisation before the Wraith took them out - Ronon's weaponry speaks to that - but who don't even get a mention on the 'we could pick over their bones and see if they developed something we haven't' scale. Hell, I don't think anyone's mentioned even asking Ronon if they can take apart his weapons to see how they tick.

Granted, Ronon's likely to look at them and say flatly, 'No,' but the man came from a world that nearly fought back against the Wraith! Just because he doesn't speak much doesn't mean he's a savage. He's probably no more of a savage than any man who comes home from his work, sits down in his lounge chair and can't be prevailed on for more than a grunt or a dozen before dinner, let alone bed.

The episode that's supposed to deal with Ronon's background will be interesting: if only because it took them about 30 episodes to even revisit Teyla's background with the Athosians, and they were relegated to a side plot, a funeral, and some very lovely singing by Rachel Luttrell that had almost no relevance to the plot.

The race issue is another thing that's slowly been coming upon me.

SG1 - Teal'c is the 'native guide' - black, primitive people.
SGA - Teyla is the 'native guide' - mixed race, primitive people.
SGA - Aiden is the 'yes, man' - black
SGA - Ronon is the 'grunt and muscle' - with a polynesian background (? I think - but even if not, the point with Teal'c, Teyla and Aiden still stands)

You know, I'm waiting for the episode where they come across an Asiatic civilisation that's either run like the Japanese samurai or full of Asian crime gangs.

It's a bit worrying, not that there are characters who are relegated to the background and they're non-white(other characters are background, too: Janet, Carson, Zelenka, etc), but that the non-white characters seem to be inevitably relegated to the background in the Stargate universe.

To some degree, I'm sure it's symptomatic of TV shows: white people want to watch white people. Still, I find it disturbing that the nominated 'leaders' of the primitive peoples - and therefore their representatives - are almost always non-white. (Plus, the leaders of the 'white people with civilisation' are evil if their cultures aren't.)

Finally, I'm curious about the fact that the 'jumper driver seat is on the left. Not all civilisations drive on the right-hand side of the road. It's like the assumption that people in the Northern Hemisphere have that birds fly south for the winter, and that things get warmer the further south you go.

Atlantis does not necessarily have to be in the northern hemisphere of its planet. I mean, it very well may be - I haven't studied the shots of the planet all that well. But, coming from the other half of the planet (where Christmas is in summer and we build our houses facing north for the best sun) I think it would be cool to have all the people from up north completely turned around by the fact that the sun's path lies northwards and not south, while the people from the southern hemisphere are all "what are you guys going on about?" While secretly snickering behind their hands.

The idea of a culture that influenced Earth (instead of American-Earth influencing it) is intriguing: but it would have been nice to see some of the standards turned upside down - perceptions changed and rearranged - to make people think.

And if you can sandwich some perception adjustment in between entertainment, I don't think that's entirely a bad thing.

Comments

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

.......

That's... PC at it's uppermost isn't it?

There's offensive language, like a certain word no one will say when reaing 'To Kill a Mockingbird' aloud without halting first, but then there's... taking it a bit to far.

Person of color????


Does that mean that if your skin is white, you're Person of No Color? What about those of mixed race, are they Person Of Some Color?

And do we even get to take it onto nationalities? That'd be cool, then I can be Person Of No Colour and Several Countries.


I'm all for not insulting people, but I'm also for not going so far as it become rediculouse. It's not just the race thing, there's the fact that aparently the term Brain Storm isn't PC now, because some bloke arbitarially decided it wasn't.

I'm white, I've got a co-worker I mostly get along who's black, another who's from India/Pakistan area. I'm pretty sure that if I went up to them and said "Ya know, you're aparently suposed to be called 'a person of colour'" they'd look at me odd.

I don't mean to come off all snarky (though, I probably do, sorry) but... seriously. Actually, and though I don't live in America and am white, Person of Colour sounds more insulting than Coloured. Patronising, like going 'yes, that person has colour in their skin, but remember boys and girls, they're still a person...'. Well, d'uh.


And sorry for randomly butting in.... it's just PC to the extreme and beyond protecting people from racists just annoys me to hell.

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

Uh, whatever. You're white, and you're not an American, so maybe it's vaguely conceivable that you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, hmm?

If you use "colored" in America or around Americans, people are going to think that you're a racist asshole. Is there something particularly admirable about being thought to be a racist asshole, or about wishing to avoid being thought of as one?

Your last line is a prime example of jerk insurance. If you want to be a jerk, at least have the balls to own it.

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Yup, I'm white. I do get the entire insulting your heratige thing though, having speant a great deal of time growing up around people who resent all of America and spend a great deal of time mocking and insulting it, and me, when they know I'm half American. Even my bloody Head Master did it, and the teachers didn't seem to give a damn when I went to them and complained. Oh, and then lets not get into the 'athiests have no moroals and are all EVIL!!!!!' thing. So, just remember, it's not just non-whites who get insulted by racists and prejudiced people, hmm?

And, by the way, I am American, I just didn't grow up there. I call my mother mom, I celibrate 4th July and Thanksgiving, always have, always will.

Yes, and I didn't say that some find 'colored' a racist term, I don't know why, but I'd have thought a certain other word begining with n was more offensive. It's just the fact that PC is getting way out of hand at times that peeves me, and the fact that no one can seem to stick to one thing. As some one mentioned, the correct 'name' changes fairly often.

And it being admirable to have people think I'm racist? Hell no! I am in no way, shape or form a racist. I don't give a damn if a person is black, white, asian (either from the subcontinant or oriental), native american, from the pacific islands, from the middle east, mixed race or any other racial group you can come up with. I also don't give a damn what religion they are, just so long as they don't try and convert me and pass of theology as science. Teach theology, sure, just as theology for cryin' out loud! It'd be interesting, I'd take that class, I have a GCSE in Religous Studies for Valen's sake...

I. Am. Not. A. Racist.

I just think PC can get way overboard. I think it does go overoard at times.

And, well, if I were a jerk, I'd admit to it. Alas, I am not. And thinking PC can go overboard doesn't equate to being racist. Just like thinking too much really loud music is daft doesn't make you hate rock music, and so on. Not on the same scale, I know, similar idea though. Metaphor.

I will, however, admit to being some an Athiest American/English geek/dork female with a dose of Irish blood on my mother's side, and some other groups so far back it doesn't count really.

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

typo: I didn't say that some find 'colored' a racist term should be 'didn't say that some don't find....'.

Though, I'm sure there's more than one typo up on there.

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

Well, then you clearly understand the struggle of Americans descended from slaves, and should be able to call them whatever you want.

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Look.... I am not claiming to be black. I am not claiming to be decended from people who were kidnaped from their homes by whites, and at times actually given to whites by tribal leaders, to be used as slaves. I don't think I ever actually claimed that. I am just saying, that there's more than one kind of prejudice out there, and can you please at least get that?

Black people do not have the market on prejudice and racism.

Jewish people probably have suffered prejudice too, what with a rather substantial portion of their people being killed by Hitler, and the neo-nazis still around today. Who, I know, aren't fond of black people either.

And no, I am not claiming to be Jewish or of Jewish decent either (within the last century or so anyway).


Around here, if you're black then, well, generally people say you're black. If you're white, you're white. If you're mixed race... you get the idea. And if you get all the non white groups together, generally the term these days seem to be 'ethnic minorities'.

I also know that I've been friends with more than one non-white person in my time, and all of them would think I was bonkers if I suddenly started refering to them as 'people of colour'.

So, seriously, I know it's a sensative issue over there, is here too but not to the same degree I think. But, get some perspective, yeah?

I do not claim to be black.

I do not claim to understand the emotional impact of struggling for freedom and then equality, which is still a struggle today in many cases.

I do not claim to be the local PC term maker either.


I am just saying, really, that PC can and does at time go so far that it can be absured. And I didn't even say People of Color is absured. I don't get why it's such a magnificent term, especially when it sounds patronising to me, but if you like it, heck, you like it, okay, fair enough.

Doesn't mean that suddenly changing the name of a form of note taking because some guy though it insulted people who were mentally ill isn't slightly daft. And, just to make sure that doesn't insult someone, I'll just go ask a friend of mine who'd have more right to complain about that than either you or me if using 'Brain Storm' when meaning note taking is insulting.

Hang on...

And she's not online. I'll get back to you on that.

[sgatlantislight.livejournal.com]

It occurs to me that there might also be a bit of a backlash against the PC term "person of color" because it's a rather distinctly American term, which seems an interesting choice in a post about not only racial bias but also Americentrism. Not that I can think of a better, all-inclusive, term, mind, but it does rather smack of Americanism.

It's sort of like the post I read where someone was asking if Rainbow Sun Francks was partly Native American who just didn't get that since he's Canadian the term Native American wasn't really a good one, regardless of whether it was properly PC in the States.

[meyerlemon.livejournal.com]

I find this baffling. Did my original comment say anything but "this term is often perceived to be offensive BY AMERICANS"?

I have always understood the "American" in "Native American" to refer to the continents, not the republic. Even so, I don't really understand what your anecdote has to do with the fact that a word that was used in polite company when you couldn't say "nigger" isn't a terrific, straight-talkin' alternative to something as OMG PC and ANNOYING FOR YOU TO READ as POC.

[sgatlantislight.livejournal.com]

I don't believe I made any statement either in favour of or against the term "colored" in my comment. Indeed, I made no statement, personally or in a broader sense, in favour of or against any terms in my comment-- merely pointed out why there might be some resistance to a term used almost exclusively in the States and mused about whether or not there was a term that would have broader appeal and/or applicability (and admitted to being wanting in that area). I believe if you go back and re-read, you may find that any annoyance on my part at the term "person of color" was something you read into the comment and not something expressed or implied by me.

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

I'm white, I've got a co-worker I mostly get along who's black, another who's from India/Pakistan area. I'm pretty sure that if I went up to them and said "Ya know, you're aparently suposed to be called 'a person of colour'" they'd look at me odd.

Actually if you rolled up and called people anything without asking about what they call themselves, I'm sure they'd look at you strange too.

I always find it interesting that people will come out with the "oh, that's too PC" argument whenever there's something that they don't like.

I use POC. I refer to myself as a woman of color. The people I hang with do the same. For me it talks about a deeper connection than just the color of skin. It also encompasses a set of experiences that may be similar, disimilar across a very broad spectrum in terms of being seen/named as colored (and I use 'colored' deliberately) in the United States.

No one said you had to use it as a term but it doesn't give you the right to negate someone else's usage because it doesn't appeal to you.

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Look... people are taking it as if I'm going all 'Ooooo, lets use the racist term' and 'Oooo, I am from hense forth saying no one should use it'.

I'm just saying, the term seems a bit patrnoising to me. That's just me though, okay?

Also, those I know kinda know I'm odd as it is, so it'd just be another oddity in the life of Neth, far as they're concerned.


And it's not just the protect-against-racism PC terms, seriously. Brain Storms. A form of note taking, I'm not a big fan of it, but that's just me. One day, it turns out that's now insulting, why, because aparently people suffering from mental illness find it insultng. I've got a friend who suffers from depression, and not naming names cause she wont apreciate it, and as far as I know... she's no objection to the term Brain Storm. Though, I'm waiting till she gets home so I can ask her.


I'm not saying I'm aginst POC as a term, as I said, it just seems patronising to me. But, I supose that's a problem with any over reaching term anyone's going to find. Over here in Britain it's Ethnic Minorities. Which is a little bit of a put down aswell from a certain point of view. Probably, come to think of it, any term you find will have that aspect to it. Personally, I think calling people 'people' works just find, but I know pressure groups and civil rights groups need one over reaching term or everything would be far messier.


Doesn't mean I get why saying you're a person of colour says there's more to you than your colour than saying youre (and sorry as this is insulting) 'coloured'. But, you do, so fair doos, not my place really.

But, as has been both admitted by me early on, and then had it pointed out to me numerous times, I'm white, it's not my right to choose what you find insulting.

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

I'm really not sure anyone was saying "Ooo she's racist", but I haven't read each and every thread in this post to be sure. That being said...

Regardless of whether you or I or any other particular individual thinks "colored" is a racist term, and whether it is said with racist intent, the fact remains that in America, in 2006, use of the term "colored" is going to be viewed by the vast majority of Americans as at best ignorant (if the person using it is, like, 80) and at worst racist and proud of it.

It's a term that will evoke "whites only" and "colored only" signs for most Americans familiar with that era of American history. Sure there's plenty of room for subjectivity when it comes to language, and sure there's an awful lot of touchiness when it comes to race, and sure some people go overboard with the PC.

However. America has had (and continues to have) a long, complicated, ongoing, difficult relationship with race. We just do. We aren't unique in that regard, but our particular experience with race, as a country, is unique. The plain fact is, if a person uses the term "colored" to an American without irony, they are very likely to evoke the image of separate water fountains, bus strikes, Rosa Parks and Jim Crow laws. This is a fact. Also, Colored is going to evoke Black/african american, and not the general "brown people" catagory I think the author may have been going for.

If you're not intending to evoke these issues, and instead are looking to talk about "people who are not white", "persons of color", while maybe sounding awkward and overly PC, is a reasonable, culturally accepted, accurate term.

And while Ethnic Minority seems to make sense, in many parts of the world (my own NYC included) whites either already are, or are poised to be a minority, so I'm not sure that will work for a term for much longer either.

I think meyerlemon was correct to gently let tielan know that "colored" is a highly loaded term in America, and I back her up on it, and an impromptu poll of my own (pretty damn diverse) office led to unanimous laughter and "Um, yeah, ixnay on the olored-cay" and "do they call them negros in Austrailia too?"

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

And, also, I'm gettin on the deffensive here cause it seems I've suddenly been labled a racist... so typos are coming out way more than is normal here. I spotted at least one wrong letter, and one word that seems to have been missed out completely.

Alas, this is what happens when you think faster than you type.

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

And I too can acknowlege my own defensiveness around the issue because I've had to argue this over and over again with folks.

It's hard. It's even harder because we can't see each other face to face and have this conversation. I'd like to think that we can work past it, acknowledge each other's frustration and go from there.

[freifraufischer.livejournal.com]

Are you northern by any chance?

I live in the south and if I, as a middle class white woman, called someone colored I would get spit on or worse. You may want to dismiss something as PC, but I know damn well there are words I'm not allowed to use, and yes, they include calling people of color "colored" or calling any black man over the age of 12 "boy".

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Well, my mom's from Ohio. But, I've grown up in England, and I'm from the south of it, across the water from Cardiff (in Wales).

So, mostly no, but kinda yes *g*.


Huh, yeah, boy... I can see where'd that'd come from. We don't have that over here, though boys tend to stop being boys around 14, and from then till around 18 it's boy/teenager hybrid... thing. Doesn't change cause of a person's race.

But, I can see how it'd be there.


But, nope, I'm a southerner! In, ah, another country.

[freifraufischer.livejournal.com]

I asked because I was raised in lilly white new england and when I moved ot the south as a teenager I got in a lot of trouble (on the verge of violence) for calling one of my own peers a boy. There were no racial motivations behind it on my end, but it still near well got me beat up.

Unfortunately on the internet there aren't restrictions on where people read things, so while it might be just fine where you are or where the author is, it's still likely to cause problems if read by people in my part of the world.

As Melyanna pointed out, "colored" brings up mental images here of seperate drinking fountains and segregation. My grandfather, when he was still alive, was an upper class southern gentlemen of a different generation and he used colored in polite conversation, and negro and nigger in less polite conversation. He meant the same thing both times, and everyone around him knew it.

[melyanna.livejournal.com]

"Person of color" is the term that's more commonly used. That was, I think, meyerlemon's point. "Colored" is a very loaded word in this country, primarily because it was the word one used instead of "nigger" in polite society. It's like calling a black adult "boy." It's understood as rather insulting and patronizing, because that was its intent at one time. I'm sure it wasn't the same way in other countries, but in the US, and especially in parts of the South, that word is one that's associated with separate drinking fountains and signs saying that black people can't come in. It has never been a positive or even neutral word here. I've lived in a couple places where racial tensions ran very high, and, well, not to be overly dramatic, but using the word "colored" was enough to get you shot in some parts of town. Seriously. I've seen fights started by that word.

This wasn't a PC freak response. This wasn't someone going ballistic because a black politician used the word niggardly instead of stingy. She didn't accuse anyone of being a racist or insensitive, but was merely informing tielan of a cultural and colloquial difference.

[misty4me.livejournal.com]

Having lived through far too many stages of political correctness, I can sympathize with how one term might sound wonky to someone not from the culture. IN my lifetime in the States, Americans of Arican descent have been commonly called (from oldest to newest) Colored, Black, African American, and Persons of Color. Interestingly, Hispanics are generally called Hispanic or Latino, Amerindians are called Native Americans or (less commonly) Indians. Other common terms for racial groups are Asian, White and Middle Eastern.

It's interesting to me that A) The terms Colored and Person of Color actually are not inclusive of all non-Causcasians. B) the only groups where an actual skin color is made reference to are Caucasians and African Americans.

Now there are a lot of reasons not to use various terms, but the bottom line is that whatever term is used, it's going to make someone roll their eyes. Among my friends, several of whom are not Caucasion it is much more common to use the term Black than it is African American or Person of Color. In fact, I don't think I've ever heard any of my AA friends and acquaintances use that term outside of a professional venue, where they were addressing groups of people, either out loud or on paper.

At any rate, you're not racist/prejudiced any more than the next person is just because you think a term is absurd. And yeah, SGA and SG are culturally provincial. In some ways it's unfortunate, in someways it's inevitable. Unfortunately, most of sci-fi, for all that it's about being speculative fiction, it largely white, mainstream oriented, and is culturally atuned to the American (read most lucrative) market. Heck, even Anime produced in Japan for a Japanese audience tends to be that way.

Okay, I've rambled enough and I'm not ever really sure this response is relavent to your comment, but hey, that's never stopped me in the past.

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

Rambling is good. And, in anycase, thanks for the comments. I've been stressing all day long, so it's a comfort, even though not intended that way.


And it's a sad fact, the fact that most SF/Fantasy is white based. Probably one of the reasons I love the Wizard of Earthsea series (in book format), and there are many, is the fact that the racial profiles of that world are turned upside down to what we're used to. The different groups of the so called 'cultured' civilisations are all black or native American type colourings, and the so called 'uncivilised' group are white skined and mostly light haired. And then you learn it's a bit more complicated than that, and that they aren't really uncivilised after all. It's all upside down, makes a person think (especially considering when it was written).

Which, meant that when Sci-Fi made the TV show and made Ged white I was, ah, annoyed to say the least. Ranting would be more acurate.

And I just went off on a tangent... darn.


But... I'm gonna nod, agree, and say many thanks.

[ahab99.livejournal.com]

Actually, I've had different experiences with the terms. "People of color" is often used as an all-inclusive term, and I know people who regularly use the term "brown" to refer to their own ethnicity (to distinguish them from "white" or "black"). Also, I had a professor who preferred to say "pink" rather than "white," since "white" skin isn't actually properly white. Other color terms for ethnicity used to be used (red and yellow, for example), but I can't say that I hear them in use anymore.

[misty4me.livejournal.com]

Maybe it has to do with venue. I live in a medium sized American city, mildly conservative. Minority urban, white suburban via white-flight. We actually live in the city, are exposed to more of the minority population, and a white population that wants to be in a diverse environment. I also happen to work in a fortune 500 company, one that goes overboard for policial correctness and I have yet to hear anyone refer to themselves as anything other than white, black, Hispanic, etc. No one would think of referring to themselves as brown or a person of color in casual conversation. At any rate, having worked in a number of large corporations and small ones over the years, the term person of color is largely considered a business/political term and not used when folks are just standing around the water cooler.

I cold see that being different in other environs, especially some place like a university, where folks have a totally different take on things.

[ellex42.livejournal.com]

Hiya, Neth...just want to reassure you, first of all, that I'm so not getting into the rest of the conversational thread that was going on here. Different terms have different connotations for different people living in different places. 'Nuff said.

I did, however, want to ask you about the term Brain Storm, purely out of curiosity, because it's clear you weren't using it to mean what I had thought it meant. To me, Brain Storm (usually not capitalized) means I've had an idea or I'm working on an idea, as in "I'm brainstorming on my latest fic to work out the plot".

I had heard of Brain Storm being used, in the past, to describe an epileptic seizure. It's not really an accepted term now, both for PC reasons and because people are, in general, a bit more educated on the subject (at least, in my experience, they are). I'd never heard of it being used in terms of any type of mental illness, however. And since my youngest brother suffered from a mental illness, I've had a lot of experience with that here in the USA.

So what, in your experience, does the term brain storm mean, and why is it not PC?

[neth-dugan.livejournal.com]

In my experience, a brain storm is what you said, the putting the idea down, and going fromt hat to... well what you said. That and the form of note taking (which is pretty much the same) of putting the central subject, having things around that, and things around that. Like some kinda tree/web hybrid thing.

So what you said, that's always been a Brain Storm. And, suddenly, we weren't allowed to say it, and people would tell you off at school for it because it wasn't PC anymore, though I can never remember what they changed it to cause I still call it a Brain Storm.

I hadn't heard of it in reference to epileptic seizures, and I get why people'd be upset about that, it'd degrading. But... I mean, seriously, they're two different things. One's a seizure, the other... so isn't.

But it was for that seizure name, I'd guess, that it suddenly became un-PC to call the note taking thing a Brain Storm. Because what I was told was that 'it offended people with mental dissabilities' or something. I know people with mental dissabilities, and they don't find it insulting. Hell, my cousin has a rather serious mental condition, but....


So yeah, that's what I was on about. And it was that thing that pretty much tipped me over into ranting about PC every now and then.

[ellex42.livejournal.com]

Huh. The world just keeps getting stranger and stranger. I know about the note-taking thing, with writing down a central subject and then writing related concepts around it and connecting them with lines, but I never heard it called a Brain Storm. I don't remember what it was called, though, because I think I only did it once or twice in school.

As far as I know, the term brainstorm still means working on an idea here in the US. If I asked anyone I know - even the older generation - what a brainstorm was, they wouldn't define it as an epileptic seizure or as referencing any type of mental illness.

'Colored' really is a sensitive, loaded term here, though, because of the way it was used in the sixties. But people really do have to make allowances for the usage of different terms in different geographical and cultural areas. Unfortunately, we can't hear your accent over the internet!