ponderings on friends and friending memes

[tielan]

I put my name down on the SG1/SGA friending meme.

However, since my favourite SGA character is Teyla and my favourite SGA pairing is John/Teyla, I doubt I'm going to get any new friends out of it. The most-disliked character (or least-liked, anyway) and most-disliked pairing on SGA? Never let it be said that I in any way, shape, or form, run with the crowd! At any rate, I daresay that the other friending meme is going to be a bust for people like myself, who aren't McShep, Shweir, or Teynon (or whatever they're calling it).

I thought about running a friending meme for fans of Teyla: just for fans of Teyla. But I seem to be a bit of a black sheep in fandom these days. Hold the 'wrong' opinions. Say the 'wrong' things. Don't support the 'right' characters or the 'right' pairings in the 'right' ways. Hell, half my f-list avoids this LJ for one reason or another! Do I have any hope of getting total strangers involved in such an undertaking?

And even friends-of-friends would probably be a bust: the people I could count on to propagate this meme don't have large f-lists and aren't heavily involved in fandom. They might not even want to expand their f-lists.

Am I arguing myself out of doing this? Possibly. In fact, quite probably. But the fact is, a lot of Teyla's fans seem to have gone underground - and we who remain aren't exactly the cool kids. Now are we the uncool kids because we like Teyla, or is Teyla just liked by the uncool kids?

(No offence intended to any of my f-list reading this who are Teyla-fans. But you have to admit, we're not exactly a chatty, involved, super-popular bunch. Well, maybe you are! But I'm not.)

So what I'm basically asking is whether there's anyone reading this who'd pimp a Teyla-oriented friending meme, or knows of people who'd answer a Teyla-oriented friending meme run by me. (I think it's a valid question: there are at least three people I know of who are fans of Teyla but would rather slit their firstborn's throat than touch anything I'm involved in.)

It would be nice to expand the f-list with Teyla-fans (preferably productive ones) before the S4 spoilers start seeping out.

---

I was going to watch Heroes: Hiro tonight. But all I wanna do is sleep.

Comments

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

There was a poll about what to call Teyla/Ronon. Of course, it was run by Sparky fans, so I am pretty sure we ended up picking another dog's name. I voted for Rover, but I can't remember how it turned out.

I think sometimes you paint a really dark picture of the Atlantis fandom. Or maybe you just see sides of it that I don't. I mean, I don't get all that much feedback on my fic either...and it's usually Sparky, which is fairly popular. It's been a bad season. There hasn't been much to grow on (except with Ronon), so we've all kind of turned on one another. Personally, I think we should all turn on Richard Kind, but I've been known to hold a grudge.

Maybe I have just been lucky and always manage to fall in with the Main Ship (er...except of Battlestar Galactica), or at least something relatively fan-supported. Lately, I've been upset about the lack of (good) Beckett/Cadman, but for the most part, I have created a good base. If you can find two or three people to support as they develop in fandom, then I think you'll have done quite well.

In any case, please remember that I like your stories a lot, even though I don't agree with 99% of your 'ships. You are an excellent writer and I love you word use. I know you want more because frankly so do I, and I think this meme thing is a good way to make that move.

[tielan]

I think sometimes you paint a really dark picture of the Atlantis fandom. Or maybe you just see sides of it that I don't.

True. I've had a lot of negative experiences and not half enough positive ones in Atlantis fandom.

After the umpteenth person tells you that you like a character whose only value is in boobage, or that your pairing is only shipped by stupid, shallow people who like pretty characters together, one becomes extremely jaded about the nature of fans and fannishness.

I'd like to be *squee* about the show. Unfortunately, when I go *squee* almost nobody else does.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I really do like Teyla. I just wish there was...more to her. Because at first I was realized she would just be Teal'c-as-a-girl and instead of making her something different, they haven't made her anything at all and I think that is desperately unfair. Atlantis seems to be stuck in this rut where only Rodney and John get to have character development and so, quite naturally, fandom has grown up around that. It's unfortunate, but I think it's also the nature of the beast.

In all honesty, how can someone who 'ships ANYONE on this show say that Teyla/John is about Teh Pretty? They're ALL pretty (well...except for maybe Rodney). And as for the boobage comment...clearly the lack imagination.

When I realized that my particular niches in the SGA fandom were never going to be full, I reached out. That's how I found you and how I read "Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left To Lose", both of which are well outside the reasons I got into SGA in the first place. I chose to focus on the people who could really write and ignore the 'shipping. And yes, if it's Sparky, I'll read it. But there are many cases where a non-Sparky story has been the better. Maybe if your section of fandom isn't filling in the way you would like it to you could try expanding into something else.

(It's hard to do tone in these posts...I am totally not trying to be all "Clearly, you need to grow up!", I am just trying to be helpful. Feel free to tell me to shut up.)

[thelana.livejournal.com]

There are S4 spoilers *toes curl in anticipation*

I put my name down on the SG1/SGA friending meme.

However, since my favourite SGA character is Teyla and my favourite SGA pairing is John/Teyla, I doubt I'm going to get any new friends out of it.

Well you could seek out the ones that seem to at least loosely fit your profile and friend *them* and ask for a friendback.

I have to admit, when I get into a fandom, I often go onto random friending sprees. Like immediately friend somebody because they have written a fic I liked, friend somebody because they have *commented* on a fic I liked, hell, I have friended people because I really liked their icon (subsequently, yes, I have also unfriended people over an icon I didn't like; Seems to only fit with my friending preference).

I've been thinking about the whole unpopular fandoms and unpopular fandom opinions thing lately (mostly because I was formulating a reply to this post (http://fanaticalone.livejournal.com/182959.html)) and it's sad how it usually always boils down to effort and how it's sad that even if one is ready to bring that effort and then you can't find a partner in crime who is willing to do the same.

[tielan]

even if one is ready to bring that effort and then you can't find a partner in crime who is willing to do the same.

Yep, that's pretty much my problem. That, and my perception that the people who are enthusiastic aren't as good as I'd like, and the people who are good have their own cliques and don't really want another hanger-on.

As well as the fact that my perspective on the show and the characters isn't the standard "Soul Mates 4EVAH" attitude of shippers.

"They were born for each other, destined to be together, across a million miles and a thousand trials and tribulations..."

...doesn't tend to work for me. But it's the prevailing attitude among most shippers. "X and Y should be together! They're soul mates! It's true love! Nothing can diviiiiiiide them!"

[thelana.livejournal.com]

*snicker*

Word about the soulmate thing.

That, and my perception that the people who are enthusiastic aren't as good as I'd like, and the people who are good have their own cliques and don't really want another hanger-on.

As horrible as it sounds, my first thought was, why not try to make them better then? Talk to them, beta them, have characterisation discussions, cheer them on whenever it looks like they might make a move towards what you prefer.

I have to admit, I'm a big believer in fandom karma. I realize it *doesn't* always work, but yeah, I guess it's my illusion. So, friend if you want to be friended. Leave enthusiastic feedback if you want to receive enthusiastic feedback. Rec if you want to be recced. Get interested in other people's meta if you want people to get interested in your meta. Be openminded if you want people to be openminded to you, search for things you might have in common.

My theory (so far unproven) is that a good way is to (1) at least create the illusion of actuality (2) give people easy chances to interact with the fandom. You know, polls are nice. Even people who aren't willing t do a lot in a fandom that would require work are usually willing to vote in a poll (favorite picture of character X out of these, favorite hairstyle of character X, favorite episode out of these, favorite quote out of these...). The next step are memes (top three reasons you love character X, top three moments, top 3 quotes, top 3 favorite fics, top 3 most influential fics, top 3 fics that changed your opinion or gave you a new perspective, how do you think character X will interact when meeting character Y, who do you think does character X consider their best friend, who do you think has the most in common with character Y...). Or a frequent favorite scene picture spam. Of course... that is often a chore to keep up over a longer period of time, especially when these kind of things go through fluctuations of popularity.

Another thing that I think helps is making lists, disussing, giving reasons for why you love something and why something is great. I think people like to be reminded every once in a while about why they love the things they love. Or at least *I* like reading that. Heck, sometimes I even like reading it on fandoms I'm not even in (hey, that's why I subscribe to ship_manifesto). [btw, did you know that they currently have a free month? Where you can post all kinds of things to show your love for your pairing? Irregular essays, picturespams, top 10 moments list or whatever comes up. *attemptingly pokes you into their direction*]

[marag.livejournal.com]

I'd pimp a Teyla-oriented friending meme. I don't have a ton of SGA fans on my flist, but folks like Medie would probably respond. I do know a lot of people who are fans of unpopular ships, etc, and are tolerant of other people's likes and dislikes.

[tielan]

Thanks, Mara.

I'll probably do one in the next few days when I scrape together my courage. :)

[ubiquitous-girl.livejournal.com]

I haven't done a friending meme before. I guess it's mostly cos I tend to friend people when I get into a fandom, and then it's just those who come on the radar. :p

A Teyla friending meme sounds cool though. I'd definitely pimp it, answering, I'd try, too. 'Course, it all depends on the people. ^.^

But I've noticed that there aren't too many active Teyla fans out there. I think even the Teyla/Sheppard shippers are more active. :p Although I dunno if I can be called a proper Teyla fan, cos much as I adore her, I get totally distracted by Weir/Torri, lol.

[tielan]

there aren't too many active Teyla fans out there. I think even the Teyla/Sheppard shippers are more active.

It seems (from my perspective) that most of the Teyla-fans are in the Teyla/Sheppard camp. Or only really look at her as a character to be shipped with someone else. She's not an individual to them - she's an inescapable part of 'Sheppard-and-Teyla' or 'Teyla-and-Ronon'.

Most people who might otherwise be really great Teyla-fans get distracted by Weir. So it's not an uncommon situation; just a frustrating one from my perspective. :(

[tv-elf.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I don't get friending based on character likes/dislikes.

[tielan]

I think it works for 'just fandom' journals - because that's the common interest point for most of the people I interact with around here: fandom and character likes/dislikes, squicks and squee.

It wouldn't work so well for a RL journal.

[loveconquers14.livejournal.com]

Wow, I don't know where you've been hanging out lately, but it sounds like a depressing place. You're hugely popular in the J/T and Teyla threads at Gateworld and other forums and in several J/T Yahoo groups. It's pathetically sad that we don't leave you enough feedback, and I am just as guilty as I eagerly devour anything and everything that you read.

There are literally thousands of us out there and hundreds that are fairly verbal. I think we're more popular than you think. And after three years, consistent comments and interviews from the magical "PTB" and the actors and writers, it's fairly obvious J/T was the canon ship from the start and remains so today. Being "popular" doesn't always mean being right. (As I know you already know!) Sadly, we are just not as verbal as other ships. Many prefer not to get involved, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I know literally of over 200 people in one of my groups that are huge fans, but don't want to get involved directly. Did you know that Ken C., one of the writers, was actually hanging out in the J/T thread at Gateworld? The support, officially and non-officially is most certainly there.

If you want me to round up a handful or more of people for you, I can. Although, hanging out in mostly the same circles, you probably already know most of them. :)

[tielan]

Hey there!

I think my problem is that I generally dislike the threading at GW and, like I intimated elsewhere, the prevailing attitude of shippers there is "John and Teyla are Meant To Be!" Which isn't one that I generally share. Hence, a disconnect.

Then, too, I'm mostly on LJ - which I understand that many of the GW and mailing list people don't have or don't like using.

I'm trying to get back in the habit of posting stories to mailing lists, but not having much luck there. Keeping everything current is a difficult proposition when you've got an LJ, personal site, ff.net, and wraithbait to update, not even counting the various announcements to communities, and sending out the story to mailing lists and all.

I know that J/T has a lot of official support, and quite some support on the mailing lists and GW; but I never see any of it over here on LiveJournal.

[purple-cube.livejournal.com]

*raises hand*

I think the Teyla meme is a good idea - but I'm one of the uncool kids with a small f-list so I'm a bit useless when it comes to pimping.

[tielan]

Well, if you pimp and your f-list pimps, and their f-lists pimps...

Maybe sooner or later we'll find someone with several hundred people reading their LJ and get lucky. :)

[majortrip.livejournal.com]

I hope you don't mind me commenting here- I saw this reading the friends page of Atlantis Lovers.

Honestly, I'd love to be more involved in fandom, but I am not creative, and people seem to want friends who write or do graphics or such. I no longer am active in forums like GW or SciFi due to the tensions between fans. And those people I do have on my flist from GW tend to not be too active on LJ. I'd love to met more like-minded (in regards to fandom) people, but sadly, I'm no cool kid either. I have had instances in which people have friended me, but I don't know them and they probably friended by because of my interests without any introduction, or I don't know them well enough to friend them myself, since I use my journal to talk about personal things.

About the Teyla's-not-popular thing: I'm guilty of this myself. I got so tired at one point of feeling like I needed to 'defend' my favorite character I just withdrew. Now, I know I've probably just added to the perception that Teyla fans aren't active, but I just felt like, "Why do I need to jusify anything to this loud-mouth, obnoxious jerk who says my favorite woman on SGA is worthless?" I just got tired of it. :(

And I don't really think she's NOT popular. I just agree that for one reason or another, her fans just stay away from forums or journal or what not, so the perception is "this group over here makes a lot of noise, therefore they MUST represent the way most people feels about it".

I'd pimp your meme.

[loveconquers14.livejournal.com]

I think you summed up the situation quite well! And I wondered where my "spoiler buddy" had been the past few weeks. Sorry to hear that. :(

But I do understand. I think you guys have pinpointed it exactly.

[tielan]

Yeah, it's true that it would be nice to have 'active' friends, but I also like a good, thoughtful discussion about the characters - it helps to have a similar viewpoint, or people who are looking for similar things in the show.

Fandom seems to move in cycles and it seems fans do, too - a kind of waxing and waning of interest and intensity. Sadly, Teyla's been on the wane for a while, although the last two eps I saw (Submersion and Vengeance) have piqued my interest in S4. And the two before that established her as a prominent character that the other characters definitely care about.

So I guess I'm getting on the 'up' as far as Teyla-focused stuff in the show goes, and hoping to ride a wave of growing interest in Teyla with S4. It's kick-starting people's involvement that's the tricky part - esp. since a lot of Teyla-fans have gone underground or moved to more welcoming climes.

If you don't have any objections, I'll friend you when I get home - the 'personal life' stuff doesn't bother me much, most of the people whose LJs I read seem to be more of the RL than the fannish journalling mind.

[thelana.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I'd love to be more involved in fandom, but I am not creative, and people seem to want friends who write or do graphics or such.

I know the feeling and it can be rather isolating at times. :/

But I honestly think that it is not true that you can't make an important contribution to fandom when you can't create. I really think that feedback and encouragement and just *talking* is that important, that can be a big contribution. And even aside from that, just voting in a poll or squeeing at a picturespam post are completely valid and wonderful contributions.

Another easy step if you were to want to be more involved is linking things. Just putting in a link if you have read a story you liked or seen a discussion you really enjoyed or found some great icons or fanart.

[pqueen.livejournal.com]

I don't dislike Teyla. In fact, I like what most of the show's writers (and some of the fan writers like yourself) have done with the character. I'm thinking that a lot of people's dislike of Teyla has to do with the fact that she's just so...different. Most people can identify with Zelenka or Sheppard or (most often) Rodney because they were all raised here.

But Teyla was raised in a culture completely different. One that seemed to be primitive only because of fear of the Wraith (recalling her ease with the lighter). And not only was she raised in a different culture, but we know so little about it and about the rest of her people. We can maybe make inferences from other people that Sheppard's team runs into, but they all seem different enough that guesses about Teyla's earlier life stemming from information they have from other peoples are just that. Guesses.

It's one of the reasons I have such a hard time writing for her and Ronon. I know how they'd probably act, but on the other hand, I don't know anything about the cultural norms they were raised in to get really comfortable writing in their skin.

[tielan]

Yeah, I get the 'identification' thing - a lot of women identify with Elizabeth being white, middle-class, educated, from a technologically-advanced society, and 'bookish and geeky' rather than 'sporty and physical'. All of which appeals to the white, middleclass, educated, technologically advanced, bookish-and-geeky women of fandom.

I guess my problem is: that's not how I pick characters I want to write for, that I'm interested in.

Teyla's interesting to me because she's a cipher. Because she dresses 'revealingly' but doesn't act sexy - her standards are not Earth ones and shouldn't be measured as such. Because she observes a lot and says little, but still keeps up with what's going on - intelligence that doesn't require audience. Because she's got potential to go places in the alliance between Earth and Pegasus - working diplomatically as well as being a physically competent ally.

I dunno, maybe I'm a shallow author. I just don't feel the need to really absorb her cultural norms to write her.

I wonder if non-Americans would have an easier time writing Teyla than Americans. Because, ultimately, the "earth way of thinking" depicted in the Stargates is really American thinking - written by and for and American audience. So maybe it's sufficient to be "alien" simply by not seeing through American cultural specs?

Just a thought. :)

[lacylaces.livejournal.com]

I'm both a Teyla fan and a John/Teyla fan. And I think the friending meme is a good idea. I added you as a friend because you are a fan of both. I'd love to meet more friends to talk about SGA with, especially Teyla and Teyla/John. I will gladly pimp the meme too.

For whatever reason, I tend to end up loving characters and ships that are not quite as popular or active in Fandom - i.e. Chlark (SV), Matt/Julie (FNL) so my mutual friend list is small and mostly Supernatural, Smallville fans. And it usually doesn't grow much from friending memes. But I'm always interested in making new friends.

[tielan]

Yes, but Teyla and John/Teyla fandom is small enough that you can just 'add people' because they share the same interests. :)

It'll be interesting to see how this friending thing turns out, actually.

[missyvortexdv.livejournal.com]

Most-disliked pairing on SGA? I agree S/T is not well received due to er, certain people I'm not gonna name, who sorta spoilt it in fandom and seem to have set the idea with some that all who ship it are like the others they met, but trying shipping Kavanagh with anyone (yeah, why do I do that to myself?) and you get "OMG ewww are you crazy!" I suppose that's just disbelief/lack of imagination on those people's behalf and that the people against S/T are more set in vitriol after their bad experiences, which is probably more unpleasant a thing to receive, undeservedly.

I hope your friending meme goes okay. I'd help out if you like. Fairly certain my flist must have Teyla fans, though I reckon your LJ gets more readership as it is and I don't really have much interest n expanding my own - already difficult to keep up with - though I could probably take a few more. But I'd happily help pimp a Teyla focused friending meme anyhow.

I must say I've completely missed whatever made you a black sheep in certain areas of the fandom (and have no clue which those are...) I can only guess as to one thing infact. It mystifies me why people on your own flist would avoid your LJ. Is it me being clueless or is fandom geting bizarrer as of late?